Tinderbox Forum

Finding notes that are identified by numbers on a chart

I thought this was quite clear. If Note A is a prototype, a copy of that note is not a prototype. Or put another way, whilst $IsPrototype is true for ‘Note A’, for ‘Note A copy’ the value of the same attribute is false. By comparison, $Color would be the same for both. If ‘Note A’ were red, ‘note A copy’ would be read.

The point about ‘Note B’ is that no matter how often you copy ‘Note A’, ‘Note B’ will persist in using ‘Note A’.

Regardless, you only want a single copy of a given prototype—that’s the whole point. If you want to make a new prototype starting from an existing prototype, copy the ordiginal, rename is and then set it as a prototype (see here).

Going back to ‘note B’ using ‘Note A’ as a prototype, I sense you may think that to make another note using ‘note A’ as a prototype, you copy ‘Note A’. NO! The correct method is to make a new note, let’s call it ‘note C’—you can make it anywhere in the document, then set its prototype to ‘Note A’. If you recall there is a tutorial on how to do that latter step here.

I don’t understand what this means.

I’ve already explained a periodic table is not like a taxonomy. You are trying to create notes about plant species and want their upwards taxonomy. I’d given you a working example. Stop messing with the map for a while and use the outline I sent and add a few more species, ideally not from the same genus, i.e. so you start to branch the outline.

Hope that helps. Must go, work beckons.

Actually, a better way to put it is they are different views of the same thing and visualise different relationships and enable different functions.

Outline is the canonical view and the represents how the notes are stored. A map showing only one container in the outline. Hyperbolic view shows the whole document but only for notes that are linked to other notes, and so on.

You’ll find more on different views here.

I understand that the prototype part of the note does not duplicate in relation to the prototype settings. So, I have to change some identifying feature of the note to make a new prototype. I also have to check off generals/searchable and generals/bequeathchild… in the get info box. I forgot to say that. I think you are saying that there is no point in copying a prototype because anyway all of the parameters need to be reset anyway. If I am talking about a column, than this may not be true.

Since I am actually talking about a column that shares some aspect of each element within it, then copying makes sense to me.

I am talking about a table because that is the actual arrangement of my data. You understand that the terms are biology, so you made my project into a genealogy, but the need I have is to keep track of clinical evidence. A strict genealogy will be insufficient. The table uses genealogical information, but the layout of the items used to track the information is not a genealogy in the strict sense that you are referring to. The already thought out form for this data is a table. I am not making this up as I go. It is a system that already exists. I want to set up the prototype and then use it to make relevant notes easy to collate.

(One note could easily refer to several prototypes. I have a feeling that this is not how a prototype is used. If my feeling is true, then we should stop talking about prototypes. Or maybe I should think of notes as nested elements that are actually difficult to read in the map form, but maybe there is a easier way to read them. I am also thinking that I should keep my notes in Devon Think and use TBX as a way to collate them, but not as a way to read them.)

That is why I started asking about a table. The original information comes from a Linnaeus-type genealogy, but that is not the form that I am working with. That is why I am asking about rows and columns. But, your point is well taken. I should work with what we are both understanding. Still my question remains.

To make a prototype of a table, I think I am supposed to break my table into an outline of rows and columns. Any element (could be a plant or a mineral since both are used as medicines) could be found either within the rows, or within the columns. (That is my clinical data system not a genealogy). Plants are much more complicated than minerals, so they have more identifying elements (family, class, subclass). That means that within the same prototype container, I guess I would have two parts to the outline: the plant and mineral parts.

Furthermore, on the table system that I am using, Family, class, and subclass are not notes within notes. Each is like another smaller spreadsheet. That is the design is flat. They are within the same container as rows and column, but as identifying features, they are not notes within notes. (Remember other people who I work with, do not have TBX so they need a system that does not involve something as complicated as a genealogy to layout the data. Numbers are used to identify the categories just to decrease the verbal clutter. Also, to increase order. That is why and how a spreadsheet is used. It is a flat design and not nested) In the system that I am using, minerals and plants are based on the same spreadsheet format. I think you are saying that I would need to redo the same process of making columns and rows of the plant and mineral spreadsheets. I could not copy the mineral spreadsheet and add the complexity of the plant spreadsheet. But, in the clinical evidence chart, the columns and rows of the element are copied in fact. Physically it is difficult to place plants and minerals on the same printed page, but conceptually, for the system that I am using, they are ¨in¨ the same spreadsheet.

Other factors such as cause of disease are integrated too.

In short, totally separating the plant and mineral elements is not ideal for my project because often what I am trying to see is the relationship between plants and minerals. I really want the elements of the mineral that are the same as those in the arrangement of the clinical data about plants to use the same prototypes. (Those aspects that refer to columns and row.) I do not understand why I could not do that. The plants would need other elements that would be evident in the outline of their spreadsheet, but the column and row aspects should be re-used, at least conceptually. That is I would refer to the columns and row prototypes that are al ready available in the spreadsheet for the minerals. That would be less work, but more important, more useful for me because it is the original design used to store this clinical data. That is it is the actual design of the system that I am using. It is not conjecture in the sense that I am planning to discover it. Is this impossible in TBX? I am not asking you to do the work for me. I am asking if the concept is possible.

Sorry to be so inflexible and apparently stubborn, but I actually have something that I want to do in TBX. If what I want to do is not possible, then probably I should not try to use TBX.

It is early morning in Japan. There is plenty of time to work on the computer and walk in nature. Today it will rain, but the birds are singing anyway. Hope your work is going well.

You say this table is real but all I see are some numbers and a description that doesn’t reflect that layout. My botany degree may be back in the last millennium but your headings imply a taxonomy. For instance, if Phylum 1 is the descendant of Kingdom 1 and Phylum 2 of Kingdom 2, from what does Phylum 5 descend? Your model doesn’t explain that.

† Genealogy has nothing to do with this. Let’s try to get uor terminology correct or things get even more confusing :slight_smile:

No! It uses taxonomic information, which is an outline in terms of of how a species’ ancestry is derived. My model showed a single species but gave you easy building blocks to make more, which would lead to a more complex outline once finished. Though this is only part of the overall file, it is the easiest way to make per-species note items with all the ancestor info you say you nee. Once done you can move them into a map, or alias them as the ancestor information will be correct and won’t change.

Actually, no. A class is a taxonomic descendant. In terms of storing a note, you don’t have to to store the one within the other. But, to capture the taxonomic information you want, an outline is a good way to capture and set ancestral properties. By all means move the notes once that data is added. Think of the notes as leaves growing at the tip og a branch (of the outline). Once the leaf is grown you can detach them and put them in a pile, e.g. all on the same map.

I’m confused as to how and why you need a prototype for what you refer to as your table. The prototype lets one note (the prototype itself) seed attribute values to any note(s) that use it. The more notes that use a prototype, the more effort you save. If only one note will ever use a prototype, you don’t need a prototype for that purpose. Your ‘table’ consists of many cells though it seems unlikely each cell needs a prototype, not least because all the ‘cell’ in the table are different.

Now I’m truly confounded. How, as per your table, can you have a phylum of rock? Much as I’m trying to to help, the frame of reference and terminology keep changing. I think the underlying problem at this point is you don’t yet have a clear and unambiguous description of what you are trying to do, conflated with inconsistent terminology. Please don’t misread that as me suggesting you don’t know what you want to achieve. Not at all my point. Rather, it is articulating that idea with sufficient clarity so we can give you helpful advice.

So, it might help you if you spent a bit more time making a better descriptive model than the current ‘table’. A bunch of numbered spreadsheet cells don’t explain what’s going on especially when mixed with headings that don’t seem to fit the scenario being described.

I’m not sure there’s anything else I can practically suggest at this point, though if there are some smaller-scoped more practical questions, I’ll be happy to try and answer them. Late here, so I’ll finish now.


I am sorry. I am not using the correct terminology. I have never studied botany and I am making up terms. Part of the problem arises from the fact that I am not doing botany. What I am doing is hard for me to describe since it is new to me also and probably not within your experience either. It is a form of alternative medicine, and within that field this is very innovative work. So, I am trying to figure it out as I write to you. I am not the creator of this system, I am writing notes trying to learn the details of the system.

Returning to the spreadsheet idea of let’s call it a “periodic table” without getting into a technical discussion. I want to be able to find items on the table from rows 1-7. (and columns 1-18) I am looking at a demo by Stephen Zeoli.

https://welcometosherwood.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/tinderbox-screencast-number-2-stamps-and-agents/ Screen Shot 2020-05-25 at 12.38.45 . Rows could be “latitude” since I don’t know how to make up my own titles.

Following Steven Zeoli’s example, I would create notes for each row and then create stamps to find them. That seems like too many steps since I would do this repeatedly.

Also, the problem with using this method for Columns on my table is there are 18 columns so, I will have trouble just in terms of space on the stamp window.

Prototypes and Stamps is probably not a good way to achieve my goals.

I thought of searching for text. So, if I start the search term with a weird combination of letters such as xycolumn1, to bring up all the notes containing that term. I found this way of searching in another discussion. $Text.contains(“\xxx\b”) So I would substitute xxx with my own invented term, xycolumn1, to find all mentions of column one.

Really, I am looking for the intersection of the row identifier and the column identifier. Maybe there is a way to search for the overlap of notes that are described by two terms.

I am not sure where in the TBX interface I would do this search and what the operation is called.

If this worked, many of my problems would be solved.

I hope this is a clearer description of my problem. You said somewhere that TBX had no system for searching for text. So, maybe this is also impossible.

Thank you,

Ellen Madono

Please don’t ‘just’ re-use definitions out of context as they just confuse those who do understand them and make it harder to help you as the resulting explanations of your process don’t make sense due to the terminology.

Re Steve Z’ nice demos, viewers please note the query syntax is wrong (supported for legacy only). To test $SomeApp has the value “thing”, i.e. ‘equals’, use == and not =. Use the latter only for setting an attribute to a value, not as an equality test. See ‘= (assignment)’ as opposed to ‘== (equality)’.

If you are going to make a fixed grid in a map view, you can make two user attributes of Number data-type. Call them ‘Row’ and ‘Column’. For each note in the grid, set the relevant values. so for row 2 column 3, $Row would be set to 2 and $Column would be set to 3.

To use an agent to find all notes from row/column 1,1 through 7,18, use this query:

($Row > 0 & $Row < 8)  & $Column >0 & $Column <19)

i.e. $Row is greater than zero AND less than eight AND $Column is greater than 0 AND less than nineteen. The 'AND (&) joins mean all 4 conditions matched be true for a note to be matched.

You can’t use a stamp for this as stamps essentially set things whereas you are asking for match/alias things.

The above notwithstanding, I suspect you would gain massively by stepping back from the computer and drawing out the ‘grid’ on paper and naming all the parts. that way you are building from a known design and not getting confused as to what is your intent vs things done by the app.

Hi Mark,

I am going back to previous help that you kindly gave me now that I seem to have found the instructions for what I need to do (TBX/Menu/Help/Actions and Dashboards), I should be able to do this.

I am trying to set up a query to find an element in an arrangement of notes similar to the Periodic Table as you described above. The prototypes for $Row and $Column appear in the drop-down list for prototypes. If I get column set up as numbers (Info/Document/User)Screen Shot 2020-06-05 at 5.37.20 , then $Row that I previously set up in the same way disappears.

What do you suppose the problem is?

Thank you for your help.

Ellen Madono