Reveal note from outline in map?

(Katherine Derbyshire) #1

So everyone’s helpful advice inspired me to (again) attempt to actually do some things in Tinderbox. So I created a map, and a bunch of notes, some of them in containers. And then I switched to outline view, where I dragged a note out of its container to the main outline. And then I switched back to map view, and the note was GONE.

Well, actually it wasn’t, it had just rematerialized in a part of the map that wasn’t visible at the particular zoom level I was using.

This particular file is trivial, only a couple dozen notes, so eyeball searching for the missing note worked. But obviously it wouldn’t be so easy in a larger map, and obviously much of the utility of map view is lost if you can’t find the notes you were just working with in another view. Having to resort to the search function seems silly, given that I already know what note I want and have already located it in the outline.

So, given a note in one view, what is the fastest way to locate it in a different view?


(Brian Crane) #2

Most of the time I click on a note in the map or in the outline and hit ⌘-F. I type the note name (or a word or two in its text) and a list of hits pops up. I click the one I want and it brings me to that note.
Low-tech but effective :smiley:

(Katherine Derbyshire) #3

Not quite what I’m looking for. I have the note in the outline. I want to see the same note in the map. As I said, having to resort to the Search function for this seems silly.


(Brian Crane) #4


If you were in outline view and had a note selected and then switched to map view and couldn’t see that note on your map, you could hit the left arrow key and then the right arrow key. This would move your selection away one note and then back again. For me that reorients the map view so the off-screen note is now on-screen.

An alternative would be to just start typing the name of the note without hitting ⌘F … this should bring you to the note your looking for. It’s a search but on the fly…

(WAKAMATSU kunimitsu) #5

Dear Katherine Derbyshire,

If you do not mind my asking,
could not you up as your TBX example that speak for yourself?

This make us providing a space for discussing the issue, I believe.
It makes the headway you had hoped to make.

I could not go well from the very beginning, amount to the same thing, so did I.

In [Love hate relationship and Tinderbox 7][Love hate relationship and Tinderbox 7], what Greg Korgeski said, applicable to me.
TBX blew my mind, sometimes, deal especially with HTML export that have in the past.
(With HTML export will be headed for a successful conclusion, now.)
Cordially yours, WAKAMATSU

(Katherine Derbyshire) #6

I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand the question.


(WAKAMATSU kunimitsu) #7

Dear Katherine Derbyshire,
Excuse me.
My bad forms of writing,
To deal with the problems involved in your Note.
Best way is thereunder, I believe.
Kindly send to your Tinderbox copy file about your note for loading onto this TBX Forum.
Do you follow me?
Cordially yours, WAKAMATSU

(WAKAMATSU kunimitsu) #8

Dear Katherine Derbyshire,

I express regret for my sparse vocabulary.
I will write a sidebar on, once again.

Please supply ostensive materials for your TBX note, if you need someone’s advice.

Denoting a way of defining by direct demonstration, e.g. pointing,
giving better results, I believe.

Do you see what I am driving at?

Cordially yours, WAKAMATSU

(Katherine Derbyshire) #9

Ah, yes, examples are definitely helpful. I will try to keep that in mind.


(Mark Anderson) #10

Another simple (to use) method to locate a map item is to click in the map (left pane) and blind-type (i.e. just start typing) the desired note’s name. Tinderbox will auto-match and shift focus to that item and scroll it to view in the bottom right corner of the view.

As Tinderbox’s author has politely pointed out to me in similar moments of confusion, the scenario descrbed of ‘losing’ a moved note is a bit more complicated than it might appear. Why? Let’s unpack the assumtions in the use case:

  • Selections are shared by all tabs. They aren’t because focus shifting every time you switch tabs isn’t always optimal.
  • Adding a note to a container scrolls that note to view/expands view scope in all other tab’s view. The container being added to might not currently be expanded/shown in the target tab.
  • Number of tabs. Although a new doc starts with 2 root-level tabs (map selected) the app has to allow for there being more (or indeed several widows each with tabs).

Do all views change focus? If there are several map tabs do all change, or just one? If the latter, how does the app know which one the user intends be changed? After all, we moved the item in an outline view tabs.

I know our instinctive response is “But I just want to do…”. Hopefully, the above shows why the obvious answer isn’t always so.

(Barry Weinstein) #11

The requirement that Katherine has is reasonable. Providing for it should be possible, unless something accidental in the software is in the way.

Here’s how it might be done. Right click on the note in the outline. Select “Show in existing tab…”. This allows selection of which tab should focus on the selected note. Not selecting the target tab in this way does lead one to the confusion Mark is describing.

(eastgate) #12

The catch here is that some users really want their tabs to stay put.

For example, one tab in my weblog is always the current month’s archive, and another is my current “books received” list. They’re always open, they’re always in the same place, and I want them to stay there.

So, this very morning, I was writing about a The Chalk Artist and I wanted to link to my notes from 2009 on Allegra Goodman’s 2009 Intuition. I didn’t know when I’d made those notes, but I knew they were around here somewhere. So:

  1. I switched to my “Search” tab – a tab that I keep in outline view, anchored at the top level of the document.
  2. I searched for “Intuition”
  3. I had too many hits; who knew I used the word “intuition” to often? So I asked Tinderbox to search only note titles, and tried again.
  4. And there it was, archived in Spring 2009 and ready to be linked.

If you do want to reanchor the current view to make the search target visible, incidentally, just double-click the search result.

(Barry Weinstein) #13

“The catch here…” - Is the “here” my post?

(Katherine Derbyshire) #14

In a related query, speaking of tabs staying put… is there a way to make the Map view not recenter itself?

If I drill down into a container, when I come back to the main view, Tinderbox has centered the section of the map with the container for me. This is annoying for a number of reasons, most fundamental of them being that it makes an incorrect assumption about what I want to see. Is it possible to prevent this behavior?


(eastgate) #15

What would you like to see when zooming out from a container?

Remember: the user might not have visited this map recently. Indeed, the user may never before have seen it in map view.

If you zoom into and out of the same container often, might you be happier with a new tab that shows the contents of that container?

(Katherine Derbyshire) #16

I’m looking at a map. When I double-click on a container, I zoom in to its contents. When I go back to the main map – by clicking on the “breadcrumb” at the top of the screen – I want to see exactly what I saw before I clicked on the container. (Except for changes to the container contents, of course.) Don’t change the zoom, don’t move things around: the map is carefully designed to fit within the window.

Sure, a new tab would be fine.


(David Berreby) #17

I think what I have learned from this is to create a new tab for each new view. This has the additional virtue of leaving a “before” window, so that the note of interest is easily re-found.

Another (my personal and perhaps eccentric preference) is simply never to use the Map view. I find it disorienting and anxiety-provoking to see hundreds of notes that all look alike, each of which could contain a few words or scores more notes, positioned in such a way that finding a note might involve going up or down or left or right (or up or down among containers). I’m not a visual person, so shapes, colors, badges et al. don’t save me effort. They create more work, as I have to recall “what does red mean again?” I find Tinderbox immensely useful without maps.


(Mark Anderson) #18

@dberreby, fear not - there’s no requirement to use any particular view. Map is just a good default for most (new users). As it happens, I tend to ‘live’ - for my research - in Outline view, though only because I don’t have a 100-inch screen and use a lot of notes!

Aslo, don’t overlook Attribute Browser view which can often save a lot of agent or Key Attribute work.

(David Berreby) #19

I hadn’t thought about the relevance of screen real estate, but you’re right – my preference for Outline view is probably a consequence of working on a 13" Macbook screen all the time. Point taken on the Attribute Browser, which I use a lot, since reading James Fallows’ description of its virtues. And, thanks, always and deeply, for the Tinderbox reference files. They are a tremendous help!