Finding notes that are identified by numbers on a chart

mwra · June 6, 2020, 7:14pm

Good point, I’d failed to notice the ‘=’ button wasn’t included in the screen grab. Fixed. Please re-check articles ‘Text tab’ and ‘Key Attributes table’. Note: you may need to refresh your web browser so the updatec page shows. Is this clearer now.

Where does the article say “current” note in this context? I am using the word ‘current’ in sense of currently selected, i.e. ‘that thing presently selected’, or ‘currently set’ as in the valie/choice presently saved. I find 4 references to ‘current’ note in the ‘Key Attributes table’ article relating to your question:

“…defaults to current system time…”. See macOS System Preferences →Data & Time (also seen in your Mac’s :

Er, what about “an optional display of a user-defined tabular layout of attribute title/value cells.”. That’s what I understand Key Attributes mean. What other interpretation of the sentence would you give. Key Attributes are:

optional. A note does not have to have Key Attributes.
tabular. If Key Attributes are used, they are show in the form of a table (i.e. ‘tabular form’)
the table takes the form of two columns. On the left the attribute name, or the right it’s title.

As you as the user define a Key Attributes table, surely the las bullet point is self-evident.

Forgive me for asking, and I mean this politely, but is the issue here that English is not your first language so some terms are unfamiliar? I don’t think I’m writing complex English and the articles are heavily cross referenced.

Context, how? The links generally imply, “to find out more about [link], click the [link]”.

Forgive me, I think you misunderstand. aTbRef is a resource I write in my own spare time and host at my own cost, for the benefit of my fellow users. I make genuine effort to improve the resource based on actionable information. Insults like “must be much better.” don’t incentivise me to help anyone; you’re not paying for my help, my time: why be so demanding? Is my role in the wordld simply to answer your questions? If so, why? I can and will improve the resource but please make some effort to understand it before dismissing the content out of hand. It also helps to make actionable input, i.e. input upon which I can actually take action.

I think you totally misunderstand the effort involved in making this resource. Making specific screen grabs with mark-ups takes significant time compared to writing textual explanations. Please be respectful of the effort involved.

I think that is rather disingenuous. You seem to follow ‘links’ here to make replies. If you don’t understand links, you don’t understand the Web, or hypertext. Tinderbox links are just hypertext. I think you are rather overcomplicating things to bolster your sense of non understanding.

mwra · June 6, 2020, 7:38pm

Well, I think you should complain to the person telling you that because they clearly don’t understand they are giving you confusing information. I do hope you aren’t paying for such advice, in which case you definitely should complain.

That doesn’t makes sense. Please read up how the periodic table work, if you do you’ll realise how completely misguided your approximation is. If someone is telling you what you describe as fact, please understand they may have little understanding of science. In today’s parlance, it’s false science.

Indeed, these are row, as I duly stated some while ago up thread. But what are these supposed ‘columns’.

I’m getting lost. Is this Scientology? I’m a simple scientist. I can help with ideas within the bounds of reality. If this is about unicorns and crystals, then any useable logic falls away and normal logic doesn’t work and it’s so hard for me to help. This is not because I don’t want to help but I simply don’t understand the alternative reality involved. Lest you give up, do you have a colleague in your field who can perhaps explain your system’s method in terms closer to scientific logic? It might just be a case of terminology. By ‘scientific logic’ I’m not referring to your style of medicine, but the logic used to describe it.

If you have any factual questions about Tinderbox do please ask and I or others here will try to help. It may also help to start new forum threads for such questions. i think this thread may have run its course.

WAKAMATSU · June 7, 2020, 3:07am

Dear Mr.Mark Anderson,

Thank you for making a polite observation about furnishing an answer in this Forum every time.
I have many lessons to learn about writing back an answer.
I can not believe you have such a long fuse, nature of human beings are not you.

At all events, aTbRef-8.tbx Japanese Translation is still going on in linking relations the way it was.

De novo mwra, please allow my back-seat driving.
I do not want to tug in a subject, strange to say why she does not uses anything else？Why not another tool to control ?
This is not to suggest that I do not have enough knowledge of Tinderbox how excellent potential exists to have.

Why not using “phylogenetic tree” or “Diagrams” or “???” with LaTeX?
Take a look those URLs.
TikZ and PGF examples
hier!! TikZ - TeX Wiki

TikZ examples tag: Diagrams

Periodic Table of Chemical Elements
Periodic Table of Chemical Elements | TikZ example
TikZ examples feature: Node positioning
TikZ and PGF examples
TikZ

=============Why not MEGA nor BLST ??

Phylogenetic tree - Wikipedia
分子系統樹作成方法
 MEGA – チームてづるもづる
 植物について－植物の分類－

植物系統樹（画像あり） | 系統樹, デザイン, グラフィックデザイン
 ‎www.nibb.ac.jp/~evodevo/pdf_JP/2015_Hasebe_saibokogaku_betu.pdf

https://www.jst.go.jp/nbdc/bird/jinzai/literacy/streaming/h21_4_3b.pdf

系統学関連 - Life is fifthdimension.

‎motdb.dbcls.jp/?plugin=attach&pcmd=open&file=20130730ajacs41_onami.pdf&refer=AJACS41

樹状図樹形図 - Google 検索

世界を覆い尽くす系統樹 | 検索サイト2017~2019
[http://www.saitama-u.ac.jp/ohnishi/jikken/phylogenetic_methods.htm]

[Local BLAST の使い方〜導入・準備編(MacOSX版)〜 2011 | TogoTV]
Local BLAST の使い方～導入・準備編(MacOSX版)～ 2011 統合TV(togotv)｜生命科学系DB・ツール使い倒し系チャンネル

GenomeMatcher project
おすすめサイト

CLC Sequence Viewerを使い倒す～配列入手から系統樹作成まで～ - YouTube

I am writing to Mickey Mouse suggests, but same time back away from a proposal from this origin of the topic.
No answer is also an answer.
Respectfully, WAKAMATSU

ellen · June 11, 2020, 12:37pm

I do not know how to answer. So, I am poking holes in the dark. I tried associating the prototype p_column to the agent. But, I have failed because the note 2 with a prototype of p_column does not come up inside the agent file.
find column==2.tbx (75.1 KB)
Sorry. There is no point in answering your further questions since the first question cannot be answered.

mwra · June 11, 2020, 1:20pm

You test fails for two reasons:

The agent query. You’ve typed in the wrong code. You used:

$Column_2==2

Instead of the asked for:

$Column==2

So, the agent isn’t testing what you thought you were testing.

The $Column values. You can’t match a $Column value of 2 as no note has that value. Indeed, no note has any value for $Column as you have no attribute Column defined in your TBX.

So, the ‘fail’ is actually to be expected and showing correct function. Let’s try over and:

Create a user attribute of Number type called Column.
Set ‘Column’ as a key attribute for note ‘2’, and edit the value to 2.
In the agent ‘a_2’ correct the query, as I’m just explained above.

If you do that correctly, the agent with match a note with the $Column value 2, and it will make an alias of note ‘2’ as seen here (I’ve turned on outline view columns so you can see the values of $Column for each note):

Have another go. Start with the file you just uploaded. Make the corrections I describe as confirm if you get the agent to find anything.

ellen · June 13, 2020, 5:32am

How nice to see what the proper answer is supposed to look like. Unfortunately, I did not achieve your results.

What you are saying seems crystal clear, but I am missing something.

What does "edit value to ‘2’ mean? (see the quote above).

I added a Key attribute of 2, but Name=2 is red (see the photo below) so I assume that there is a problem. Although the meaning of Default in the photo below is unclear, I tried adding 2, but that is no doubt wrong. As a result, I got no answer. The default value for Name was 0. That yielded no answer either.

mwra · June 13, 2020, 1:36pm

Edit in the normal sense, of altering or changing it. A Number-type attribute will normally have a default value of 0 (zero), unless it has already been set to some other value. Thus, we edit the value of the attribute to 2.

I see you have illustrated the User tab of the Document Inspector. This not used to set (edit!) attribute values. This Inspector is used to create /delete used attributes and set their default properties: name, data type, default value, etc.

This is a tab on a Document Inspector which changes things at whole-document scope. Thus for any new Number-type attribute the default value is 0 (all data types have their own pre-type default). By changing the default to 2 this simple means that all notes’ value for that attribute will be 2 unless you have edited the value locally in the note (i.e. it already has a non-default value). This is what is being implied when you see reference to the term ‘inheritance’.

To edit (change) an attribute value at note level do one of:

Use Quickstamp.
Add the attribute to the Key Attributes for that note and edit it in the Key Attributes table.
use the note’s Get Info/attributes tab. This works functionally in the same manner as the Key Attributes table.

Don’t give up, try again!

ellen · June 14, 2020, 10:42am

I suspect that your goal was reached. I will never be able to reproduce the process if I don’t have some simple way of describing the steps. I am not sure about your notation. Please correct my notation if there is a better way to say the same thing or I am incorrect.
A $Note $Name=Column has an attribute was assigned from Get Info/Sandbox/MyNumber. Get Info/General/isPrototype.

Child of $Name=Column is $Note $Name=a_2. a_2 is the note that I am using to search for all notes named 2.
Query is entered in the above note a_2. $Note$Name=a_2. Key Command 3/Gear icon/Query Column_2==2
(I felt uneasy about this query because I can’t find a record of it.)
Searching for note 2 again.tbx (80.8 KB)

Thank you for patiently leading me through this process.

mwra · June 14, 2020, 12:20pm

OK, I read this as “A note, whose title ($Name) is ‘Column’ has an attribute ‘MyNumber’^† in the ‘Sandbox’ attribute group which was altered using the Get Info pop-up’s attributes tab.”

†. In this case with can refer to ‘Name’ and ‘MyNumber’ with our without the $-prefix. Many users prefer using the $-prefix as it make it easier to see an attribute name is being cited. But within action code, the prefix has a more precise meaning of “the value of this attribute”, i.e. `$Name in code returns the text that is the title of the note.

So, you used a dialog looking like this to set your $MyNumber value:

A child of note has the $Name (title) ‘a_2’. ‘a_2’ is the note that I am using to search for all notes using the notes with a title ($Name) of ‘2’.

This is note quite right though as ‘a_2’ is an agent [sic]. Although in the most generalised sense and agent is a special type of note, generally we refer to agents as agents rather than notes due to their specialised task.

The query for the above agent ‘a_2’ is : Column_2==2

Hmm, more problems here. You have two agents both called ‘a_2’. As it happens both have the same name and query so it mainly confusing duplication.

Next, the query. Queries are written in action code. You appear to want to ask if the tested note has a value of 2 for the attribute ‘Column_2’. Ig you recall from above, in action code to refer to the value of an attribute we use a $-prefix. Thus the correct form of your query is:

$Column_2==2

However, even the corrected query finds nothing. This is explained quite simply because there is no note with that value for the underlying reason that no attribute name ‘Column_2’ is defined on your document. So, you are searching for a value of a non-existent attribute which logically can’t exist in any note!

I’m also slightly confused by the use of prototypes which aren’t pertinent here anyway.

I think part of your confusion stem from not understanding the relationship of a note and it’s attributes. The tile ('Name attribute) of a note is just that. If you want to indicate a note belongs to column 2 of a table using a column called table, checking that no such attribute already exists, you need to create the attribute. But, where you create the attribute is _not where you set the note’s value, as i’ve explained in my answers above (re-read if necessary).

It is clear from your experiments that you appear to be trying to set the value of an attribute (for which you want to search) as the title of the note. But if I have a note in column 2 of the table called ‘Tannsey’ and I set its $Name value as 2, I now have a note called ‘2’ and I still have no record of the column in which it sits.

It is like watching a coat, sized medium. Currently you are asking the shop assistant (the agent here) for a “medium” and they are looking confused and fetching nothnig. Where you to ask for a cost, sized 'medium, they would return with a selection of medium-sized costs.

Try the exercise again. Don’t add anything you don’t need, e.g. prototype, separatores. For this you need:

A new document with 1 agent and 2 notes. Nothing else.
Add a user attribute called ‘Column’, of Number data type. DO NOT ALTER ITS DEFAULT VALUE, as you have been doing.
Edit only one of the notes. Set its $Column value (by any of the 3 methods i’ve described previously (above) to the value 2. DO NOT ALTER THE NOTE’S TITLE, as this is not where the note’s column value is stored.
Set the agent’s query to match a $Column value of exactly 2 in any note.

Done correctly, the agent should match 1, and only 1 of the two notes.

ellen · June 15, 2020, 10:23am

Yippe it worked. Two notes given the same attribute produced aliases of those two notes in the agent container.

First here is the process:

&2. To select attributes for 2 notes:
Select $Name Col7/Command3/DocumentInspector/Click on User/Click gear icon with a popup window/Delete attributes/Select New Attribute/Type name Col7/Select type “number”.
Make a query: Command3/Click gear icon the upper right corner/Click Query/Type zCol7==Col7

Search3.tbx (85.6 KB)

mwra · June 15, 2020, 11:06am

Excellent news! However, your TBX doesn’t reflect this. There should only be 3 notes, if you follow my instructions above. But, you have got (your) Step 1 correct, insofar as we now have ‘Col7’ attribute defined in the document. However, your query at your Step 2 doesn’t make sense:

zCol7==Col7

This will, most likely, be read (parsed) by Tinderbox as:

$zCol7=="Col7"

But you don’t have a ‘zCol7’ attribute. In fact, your ‘a_7’ agent is matching every note in the the document as Tinderbox doesn’t really understand your query. So you query should be should be:

$Col7==7

That means the agent tests every note (and agent) in the document and asks "Is the value of attribute ‘Col7’ (i.e. $Col7) exactly the same as ( i.e. ==) the number value ‘7’ (i.e. 7). White space doesn’t matter, so this would work as well:

$Col7 == 7

as some people find the query easier to read as code is there are some spaces. This only holds for space around the operators. The following will not work:

$ Col 7 == 7

as ‘$Col7’ needs to be one discrete sub-string.

You next problem is that having defined ‘Col7’ as an attribute, you don’t set the value 7 in that attribute in any note.

So, try this last step next.

ellen · June 19, 2020, 5:47am

I cannot decipher where the attribute is supposed to be written in any of these options. I understand the next response that you made the other day. So, the note about the attribute that I generally want to find might be written as Column_2 And the note that is marked by some indication that it also belongs to the category of Column_2 needs to connect the number 2 in a place where Columns are recorded. I am not sure if those are different places and how the connection is made between them.
Thanks
Ellen Madono

mwra · June 19, 2020, 9:21am

I’m at a loss as how to make things simpler. OK, here is the Quickstamp Inspector for a note with a value already set:

Here is the same for a selected note with only a default inherited value

There are only two boxes allowing input. One is labelled ‘search’. It allows you to select which attribute’s value is displayed: note that every note has over 300 built-in attributes plus any user-defined ones. That leaves only one other editable input box.

Where have you tried entering data? What happened? I’m trying to help but just saying things are ‘too hard’ doesn’t give me much to go on.

Perhaps Quickstamp is just too complex for you at this point - something to come back to when you are a bit more confident in understanding the User Interface. Which leaves…

Get Info/attributes and Key Attributes. These are functionally the same. Key Attributes in a note are simply you, the user, saying iI want some items from the Get Info/attribute table shown in a note’s text pane. so here is a Key Attributes table. In the example I’ve included lots of different data types so you can see the sort of data they hold and that some have extra controls (e.g. for URL-type attributes):

My notes state:

Attribute names are in the left column, values in the right column

The table has only two columns, and each row holds data for a single attribute. The left column holds the attributes name (and can’t be edited). Can you therefore guess where to make your value edit?

I sense you must be expecting some other form of edit mechanism, but I’m unclear as to what that is so it is difficult to give you bridging instructions.

I’m sorry but this doesn’t make sense to me, particularly “might be written as”. Are you trying to say that you are looking for a note with the title (stored in the Name attribute) of ‘Column_2’, or something else?

OK, is this what you are trying to say in both those pieces above:

The note about ‘Column_2’ needs to store in the Column attribute a value of 2, so that I can find that note via a query of $Column== 2.

mwra · June 19, 2020, 10:41am

To try and assist further, I have added specific extra test covering value editing to the Quickstamp and Key Attributes table articles. The Get Info/attribute article now links to the Key Attributes table article as the process is the same.

If still stuck, step back from the query task and just experiment setting attribute values by whichever method(s) until you are confident with that process. Learning these simple tasks helps make undertaking process/workflow easier as you’ll keep doing tasks like editing an attribute. Conversely, until you can accurately do the small task, pretty much any larger task is going to be difficult and have unexpected consequences.

ellen · June 20, 2020, 4:33am

A.tbx (77.1 KB)
There must be a missing link in my understanding.

mwra · June 20, 2020, 12:46pm

1-ish out of 3 correct, so some progress . As to the three steps illustrated described…

Step #1. Yes, ‘rx’ does have a value of 2 for the attribute named MyNumber. But your descriptions is wrong. You state

MyNumber is Set to be an attribute of 2 for note $rX

Two misunderstandings here. firstly the $-prefix. Writing ‘$rx’, readers will assume you are either referring to either:

in general text: an attribute called ‘rx’
in action code: the value of the attribute called ‘rx’ in the current note (unless an offset is given, e.g $rx("Some Note") would imply the value of attribute ‘rx’ but in the note called ‘Some Note’).

What you actually did at Step #1 was to set the attribute called ‘MyNumber’ to a value 2 in the note called ‘rx’. FWIW, the note title is stored in the $Name attribute. So, for note ‘rx’: the value of attribute $Name is “rx” and the value of attribute $MyNumber is 2.

Step #2. Here, for reasons not explained, you appear to show setting the attribute MyNumber of note ‘a_Column’ to the string “Column_2”. Of course, as shown by checking your TBX, we see attribute MyNumber of note ‘a_Column’ has the default value of 0 (zero). Why? Because you can’t set a string value, e.g. “Column_2”, for a Number-type attribute—you must use a number.

Question. What were you trying to achieve in Step #2?

Step #3. The query is asking "Does any note have the exact value 2 for the attribute ‘Column_2’. It correctly finds nothing because:

No note has this value
No note can have that value because Column_2 is not a system attribute and you have forgotten to create a (Number-type) user attribute of that name.

So let’s try the exercise again using file ‘A.tbx’:

Create a Number-type user attribute (using the Document Inspector’s ‘User’ tab) called ‘Column_2’. Leave the default value of zero.
Repeat your Step #12 above but set the value 2 for Column_2 not MyNumber.
Check you agent. It should now match note ‘rx’ but not note 'a_Column.

Question: (assuming the above works for you) Explain why the agent matches note ‘rx’ but not note 'a_Column.

If you get stuck, stop and post here explaining where you got to, what you did, what happened and what you expected to happen.

Good luck, don’t give up.

ellen · June 21, 2020, 4:07am

MyNumber attribute.tbx (92.4 KB)
This seems to be the result that you are looking for.
MyNumber=2 was the query. Another note was set for attribute of 7 in the MyNumber attribute group. So, that brought up the note set as MyNumber.

mwra · June 21, 2020, 9:08am

Well done!

I’m unclear why you chose to remove the $-prefix to MyNumber in your query, i.e. your query MyNumber==2 should be $MyNumber==2. The first of those only works because Tinderbox is c.20 years old and in very early versions the prefix wasn’t used and ‘legacy’ support allows for this. But for those of use starting out in 2020, legacy code formation should be treated as an error and corrected if found. Why? Because the notion of ‘legacy’ support with code is that an old form may continue to work but if the code is important you should update it. I don’t write this to be snarky, but to try and ensure you don’t learn syntax ‘rules’ that are out of date and likely to change.

The most important thing is you now have working agents. The next task to recreate you last but using auUser attribute Column. So, you need to:

Create a Number-type user attribute called ‘Column’.
Make some notes with a variety of Column values.
Make an agent to find the note(s) with a particular Column value. Remember the point above about the syntax of queries.

If you don’t get stuck with that challenge, you could extended it by adding a Row attribute, setting Row values and making an agent that finds a note with specific column and row values. Anyway, if you get stuck, just ask.

We seem to be making progress at last