Tinderbox Forum

We have the video recordings from Meetups, but how about the chat logs?

Since I found chat logs with some of the earlier Saturday Meetup session summaries, I had the impression these were being kept for all Meetups. However, as we learned at the end of today’s (Sept 25) Meetup, chat logs have not been posted recently.

If possible, I would find it useful to be able to refer back to the chat logs from the Meetups. If past logs are not available, then is there some way to make sure that these logs are captured and made available for future Meetups? I believe there are useful references that could be extracted from the chats that would complement the video recordings.

Thank you…

Here’s today’s:

12:08:43 From Mark Anderson : Indeed, Scrivener is a really good app.
12:09:38 From Detlef Beyer : Scrivener is great - I use it for all my publishing. But to structure notes, find them in the structure is a hard task in scrivener
12:10:33 From Peter Wasilko : I use Scrivener as a front end to my typesetting process.
12:12:14 From David Eddy : Collaboration?
12:13:05 From Mark Anderson : My take on Tinderbox vs mind maps: TB maps are the same but without restrictive hierarchy/formalism of the mind-map concept (e.g. link-lines). In fairness mind-mappers are catching up., so no foul there.
12:14:03 From Dave Rogers : The law firm of Becker, Anderson & Bernstein
12:15:17 From Mark Anderson : @David. Collaboration: working with others, or using others work. It also speaks to looking outside one’s own discipline/world-view. Terminology is often discipline-dependent, so fresh perspectives offer easily overlooked insights.
12:16:41 From Detlef Beyer : @Mark there are nice MindMap tools out there. The main difference and my no 1 reason the choose TB: you define a structure at creation time and you have to go with this structure for the lifetime of the map. In TB I can restructure the map whenever a new project starts
12:21:21 From Mark Anderson : @Detlef, yes. I don’t wan’t to seem harsh on mind-maps as a genre. Tinderbox shines at incremental formalisation. A TB map can start with no relationships at all. In fairness, some mind mappers are becoming more flexible. Which is good. More choice, lucky us!
12:23:02 From Seb : Mark Bernstein → Do we currently have any “cookbook” with examples?
12:25:45 From Mark Bernstein : The “Cookbook” document has small demos of most actions. The pdf tutorials are essentially cookbooks — especially the agents tutorial
12:26:00 From Mark Bernstein : The language is so simple that relatively little is needed.
12:27:07 From Seb : I think a cookbook of how people utilize Tinderbox to solve problems would be helpful. I may take that on and try to build something similar to Mark Anderson’s Acrobatfaq.com
12:27:22 From Mark Bernstein : That would be great!
12:31:29 From Mark Anderson : @Seb sounds neat. By all means hit me up with any questions arising about the overall project staging/design.
12:36:46 From Mark Anderson : ‘Preview’ is a preview of what you (HTML) export will look like if exported and viewed in a browser.
12:37:36 From Detlef Beyer : is there a plain ascii copy of the text attribute after adding RFT formats?
12:38:03 From Dave Rogers : Bold and italics export correctly, which is handy.
12:38:54 From Mark Bernstein : $Text is a plain Unicode (not strictly speaking ASCII) version of the text.
12:39:04 From Mark Anderson : @Detlef. Every note stores both an RTF version and a plain text version. You can’t easily show the plain version in the ‘Text’ pane.
12:39:27 From Detlef Beyer : but I could use it for export?!
12:39:44 From Seb : @Mark Anderson → Absolutely would love your advice while building it
12:39:44 From Mark Bernstein : ^value($Text) or ^text(plain)
12:40:16 From Mark Anderson : Yes. ^value($Text)^ or ^text(plain)^ will insert the plain un-styled text for the note.
12:40:27 From Ipanini : Hi guys, long time no see… sorry for that
12:40:30 From Robert Walsh : Can somebody tell me real quick how to show that text toolbar in the individual note?
12:40:35 From Mark Anderson : More easily understood by just trying it. :slightly_smiling_face:
12:40:42 From Ipanini : And then today even late to the sow…
12:41:03 From Mark Anderson : ^text^ in export tries to format bold, italics, lists, etc.
12:41:06 From Mark Bernstein : Format ▸ Text ▸ Show Rruler
12:41:07 From Seb : @Mark Bernstein → Ever think about having an $OnChecked event listener?
12:42:14 From Robert Walsh : @Mark Bernstein Thank you
12:42:17 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : What is a quick stamp vs a stamp?
12:42:18 From Detlef Beyer : can I call a Stamp from an OnAdd event?
12:42:27 From Mark Bernstein : @Seb: It’s usually fine to use a rule or an agent to keep an eye on $Checked.
12:42:46 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Detlef - I think you can just create a Rule or Edict instead
12:42:46 From Larry Dunville : Note to all, MacSparky’s DevonThink3 Field guide is now available. www.MacSparky.com
12:43:17 From Mark Bernstein : @Detlef: yes. stamp()
12:43:26 From Detlef Beyer : cool
12:43:27 From Dave Rogers : Need a bit of deeper explanation of Rule versus Edict in the discussion later.
12:43:33 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : cool
12:43:34 From Seb : @Mark Bernstein → :+1:
12:43:45 From Mark Anderson : @Robert. Showing the text/preview/export tabs in the text pane is a global, per-document setting; i.e. on/off for all notes in the doc. How to turn on, see: ‘Show/Hide Text Pane Selector’ in the Window menu, Window menu
12:44:23 From Mark Anderson : >> can I call a Stamp from an OnAdd event?
12:44:38 From Mark Anderson : stamp([items, ]stampName)
12:45:44 From Mark Anderson : if() statement: if(condition){action}[else{action}]
12:46:34 From Mark Bernstein : Short version: rules run “all the time”. Edicts run at startup and then once in a while — like every hour. In my practice, use rules all the time, and use edicts if you find that using rules for everything makes your computer work too hard.
12:46:37 From Detlef Beyer : so stamps are a way to store my custom functions and reuse them in TB…
12:46:40 From Mark Anderson : Edicts: Edicts
12:46:50 From Mark Anderson : Rules: Rules
12:47:17 From Mark Bernstein : @Detlef: yes. But a better mechanism is coming.
12:50:02 From Dave Rogers : Published misspelled
12:52:35 From Mark Anderson : Checkmarks: Checkboxes
12:52:55 From Detlef Beyer : that’s programming: make an error once and have deal with it a thousand times :wink:
12:53:43 From Max : Please explain a little bit slower
12:54:00 From Paul Christy : What is the value of Checkboxes? Are they attributes?
12:54:31 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Paul - yes they are Attributes
12:54:41 From Mark Bernstein : $Checked
12:55:43 From Mark Anderson : $checked: Checked
12:56:00 From Mark Anderson : Whoops $Checked (capital ‘C’): Checked
12:56:05 From Detlef Beyer : I would love to set straight quotes as standard for all notes in the prefs of TB
12:58:01 From Mark Anderson : @ Detlef, you can: Smart quotes
12:58:22 From Detlef Beyer : great!
12:58:51 From Detlef Beyer : misses that option
12:58:55 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : My understanding is that Smart quotes are automatically turned off in the text field when the built in code prototype is used.
12:59:47 From Mark Bernstein : @_Bill: that’s correct!
13:00:13 From Mark Anderson : The ^value()^ export command: ^value( expression )^
13:00:51 From Mark Bernstein : $SmartQuotes is an attribute; you can inherit it. Or change its default!
13:01:50 From Mark Anderson : $SmartQuotes: SmartQuotes
13:02:39 From Detlef Beyer : if I turn off smart quotes in the app prefs - will I be able to switch them on for an individual note using the attribute „SmartQuotes“?
13:03:37 From Mark Bernstein : @Detlef: yes, because if a note has a specific value, that value overrides inheritance.
13:03:49 From Mark Anderson : @Detlef, yes. The Doc Setting level is setting the attribute’s doc level default. But as $SmartQuotes is an inherited attribute, inheritance principles apply … see …
13:04:16 From Mark Anderson : Inheritance of attribute values (and articles in that section.
13:05:20 From Mark Anderson : Looking for keyboard shortcuts? See: Keyboard Shortcuts
13:05:31 From Seb : Nice!
13:06:06 From Dave Rogers : Placeholder for discussion: For blogging, we should probably discuss sorting notes in reverse chronological order.
13:06:19 From Mark Anderson : The Reverse look-up Reverse Look-up Map can be most useful as is starts with a key then modifiers (i.e. A+Cmd, A+Cmd+Opt, B+Cmd, etc.)
13:06:55 From Sascha Donath : i thought that all the styling for webpages goes into css …
13:07:30 From Ipanini : Will publishing to e.g. Wordpress be treated at a certain time? (Or has it already been treated…)
13:07:31 From Detlef Beyer : just a very minor one: the <h1> structure is called „element“ not „tag“
13:07:50 From Mark Anderson : Sorting? Sorting is … an attribute. See the sort inspector Sort tab. What you select there sets $Sort Sort
13:08:03 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Sascha - ultimately it’s all html. CSS is simply a way of relocating extensive formatting rules to an external and replaceable document, but you can include any styling info you want directly within an html page
13:08:08 From Dave Rogers : Also placeholder: Can we use Rules or Edicts on a “watched note” in Apple Notes, wherein something like a hashtag in the note text will trigger actioncode to set a certain attribute. And can action code move notes from one container to another? From a “watched note” to a note that’s just a normal note in the file. (I know nothing about watched notes.) Just thinking about doing some mobile entry.
13:10:15 From Paul Christy : Great session! Have to jump off but will keep an eye on the Forum
13:10:32 From Mark Anderson : @Sascha, @Art is spot on. CSS came some years after HTML was invented as we all got fed up of writing styling literally into every HTML tag. Today, CSS use is essentially the norm.
13:10:39 From Mark Bernstein : @Ipanini: that may not fit into THIS course, but it can be done! One way is simple copy/paste, but automation is certainly possible
13:10:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @mwra - i’ve been studying lol
13:11:12 From Sascha Donath : @art thank you. i use tbx for a blog and i have all the structure in the html template and all the styling for the structure in the css. for short articles (like michael is just demonstrating) styling is probably not a headache to be included in the html
13:11:29 From Mark Bernstein : @Sascha: <h1> says “THIS IS A HEADING”. CSS says, “I’d like my headings to be 24pt Caslon Bold”
13:11:37 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : yes basically - also things like bullets, bold, italics
13:12:11 From Mark Anderson : @Dave. Yes. Moving notes: Working with $Container to move notes
13:12:44 From Mark Anderson : But as said something to do in more detail in another session.
13:12:55 From Sascha Donath : mark bernstein: thank you.
13:14:12 From Ipanini : @MarkB - Thank you
13:14:37 From Phillip Lloyd : see this for help with HTML: W3Schools Online Web Tutorials
13:14:42 From Mark Anderson : Now having flashbacks about writing HTML before CSS was invented :scream:
13:15:36 From Bruce Gale : I am browsing through the chats and attempting to parse out those that seem most relevant.
13:15:44 From Mark Bernstein : Yay!
13:16:26 From Mark Anderson : @Art. IIRC not; probably as you’re sawing off the branch on which you are sitting. Setting $Container to a new value tells Tinderbox “Hey, I want to be in this new place)."
13:16:59 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : OK gotcha. For Everyone - I’d asked @mwra if we can use $Path interchangeably in place of $Container
13:17:21 From Mark Anderson : @ Aert more on Paths: Paths
13:17:42 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : ok thanks!
13:18:02 From Bruce Gale : Except, there are too many, my on the fly system isn’t panning out, but, I can punt.
13:18:26 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Bruce, I’ve been monitoring the chat, I don’t believe there are any unanswereds
13:18:30 From Mark Anderson : @ aRt $Path is indeed read only. How to check? See: Path
13:18:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Ah OK thanks @mwra! Luckily I’ve only thusfar been using it as readonly lol
13:19:59 From Bruce Gale : @Art, you’re correct, they were answered, but some were general Q
13:20:08 From Bruce Gale : Q’s that may not have been seen by all.
13:20:25 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : gotcha
13:20:47 From Bruce Gale : You, of course, are right in there, batting away at a good number of Q’s. :slight_smile:
13:20:52 From Scott H. : For fun: Here is a website I designed for a client, made and exported from Tinderbox: Year Zero: The Dashboard | Life OS Dashboard
13:21:04 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : I stay away from the advanced questions hahah
13:21:14 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Scott - cool!
13:21:22 From Mark Bernstein : @ScottH: Very cool!
13:22:05 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Scott - it’s really inspiring to think of all this info actually having a back-end, in the form of their Tinderbox file
13:22:52 From Mark Anderson : @Scott - nice example of design structure in depth.
13:24:31 From Scott H. : Click here to download: MapsElf | BoxPress 2
13:24:52 From Dennis Lienke : @bruce, @marka, @markb, @art, @michael — thanks
13:25:05 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Scott - very cool!
13:25:19 From Ipanini : Yes, absolutely - Thanks to everyone!!
13:26:02 From Phillip Lloyd : click on the 3 dots here in chat and then select “save chat” and then a window pops up to show you where they are in your finder
13:27:34 From Peter Wasilko : panDoc is your friend too
13:28:35 From Ipanini : @Phillip Lloyd - cool thanks!
13:29:04 From Detlef Beyer : I would love to see images as reference pasted into the text window without having the switch to the preview pane…
13:29:52 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Detlef - there is a way to make this happen… open a New Window and set it to Preview mode should work
13:31:03 From Detlef Beyer : still I don’t like having to copy the path to the image manually. So I copy the image and this slows down TB dramatically
13:31:08 From Mark Anderson : aTbRef uses no embedded images. The TBX - 000s of notes zipped is 2.5 MB. The zip of the 329 images used is 19.3 MB. But as Mark B points out, don’t be afraid to use embedded imasges if that meets your immediate need. Also, for web use, re-used image like brand/logo definitely benefit from being stored externally. The aTbRef TBX includes all its templates so feel free to steal code from there. :slightly_smiling_face:
13:31:57 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Detlef - you should be able to drag the image into a plain TextEdit window set to Text - it will give you the path
13:32:00 From David Eddy : Fun!
13:32:00 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : Thank you all

1 Like

Thanks, Mark @eastgate

I, for one, find this quite helpful. It seems some of the regulars have been using the chat portion of the Meetup to provide additional commentary and references in real time to what is being presented or discussed in the live video. I am torn between watching the video stream or trying to monitor the chat log. Usually, the best I can do is note that someone provided something relevant. Now, I can go back and capture any nuggets that do get dropped into the chat log.

Since we humans often think of relevant details “in the moment,” using the chat log is another way to capture these insights or observations on the fly without stepping on what speakers are saying. Being able to refer back to these observations/insights may promote effective “group think” during the meetups that extends beyond the actual meetup event.

Hi @echuck - this post has links to chat logs (if saved) and vimeo links of past meetups. You ought to find a lot of nuggets, links to other documents, and so on.

It has gotten a little intense for these “live QA” bouts concurrent to @satikusala’s awesome Blog Course, for sure! It’s funny - I can remember when I couldn’t follow either what was on the video or the chat! Never thought I’d ever get it. But - I guess that’s how Tinderbox grows to second nature over time :slight_smile:


For my part, I’ve simply been trying to add ‘see also’ type refs to features mentioned. The expectation is these links are for reading later rather than browsing in the moment.

If you are at a meet-yup, you can save the text for yourself via zoom. IIRC, the saved log excludes person-to-person (if not you) chat. This seems reasonable on a basis of privacy (i.e avoidance of unintended candour embarrassment)

1 Like

@mwra - I have chat transcripts (maybe not from the first moment of each meetup, but each was saved at the very end) for:
2021-09-18 • 2021-09-11 • 2021-08-21 • 2021-08-07 • 2021-07-24 • 2021-05-15
I’ll PM to you…

1 Like

Here’s 9/18 (Blogging with Tinderbox Part 1)

12:03:27 From Doug Stansfield : drsdayton
12:04:01 From Robert Walsh : RobertW
12:04:06 From Anthony Caldwell : acaldwell
12:04:47 From Chuck Wade : eChuck (Chuck Wade, Massachusetts)
12:04:58 From Detlef Beyer : what are we posting here???
12:05:26 From Peter Wasilko : Peter from the Burbs north of NYC.
12:05:54 From Jeffery : Jeffery Smith
12:06:47 From Christina Marie Comeau : Christina from Ottawa, Canada
12:06:51 From Mark Bernstein : The forum discussion on organizing maps: Organizing essay with Map vs Outline
12:07:12 From Melvin Dubnick : Mdubnick, beverly MA
12:07:18 From Enrico Nebbia : Enrico from Barcelona, Spain
12:07:48 From Detlef Beyer : Detlef from Cologne, Germany
12:07:58 From Phillip Lloyd : Phillip from Nuremberg, Germany
12:08:27 From Hagen’s iPhone : hagenh60
12:08:51 From Donath, Sascha : Sascha from Germany
12:08:53 From Andrew Brown : Andrew - London, UK
12:09:15 From Carolivia Herron : Carolivia Herron, Washington, DC
12:14:31 From Michael Becker : What it takes to become an expert: Michael Becker on LinkedIn: Anders Ericsson: Dismantling the 10,000 Hour Rule
12:16:01 From Mark Bernstein : Meetup recordings: https://vimeo.com/eastgatesystems
12:16:38 From Mark Bernstein : Training Videos: Training Videos - Tinderbox Forum
12:16:57 From Carolivia Herron : Thanks for the links, Mark.
12:17:17 From Mark Bernstein : Meetup planning: MEETUP Planning - #19 by archurhh
12:19:52 From Robert Walsh : That’s one of my favorite color schemes- white on light blue.
12:21:35 From Dennis Lienke : Dennis Lienke from Minnesota
12:23:41 From Bruce Gale : Here is the link to Podfeet Nicillicast
12:23:43 From Bruce Gale : https://www.podfeet.com/blog/programming-by-stealth/
12:26:16 From Peter Wasilko : Can we get this file?
12:26:30 From Donath, Sascha : yes, i was wondering that too
12:36:05 From Larry Dunville : The file will be posted on the forum
12:36:16 From Dave Rogers : So, a key concept of Tinderbox is that the fundamental unit is the “note.” But every note is a container. So when Michael talks about “buckets” he’s being somewhat literal in the sense that a note can be a container for other notes.
12:37:03 From Max : Can we see both views at one moment?
12:37:26 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Can you clarify please, Max?
12:37:38 From Mark Bernstein : Detail: in outline view, shift-return (⇧-Return) creates a new note as a child of the selected note.
12:39:27 From Detlef Beyer : don’t you see a problem in putting notes into a container - your are grouping the notes, but you hide them in a way too. How do I connect to a note hidden in a container if I could use the same note within a 2nd project?
12:39:39 From Max : I mean are we able to see map and outline views at once (without switching)?
12:39:41 From Mark Bernstein : Max: you can open a second window. But it’s more idiomatic to compare views by switching tabs rather than side-by-side windows
12:40:07 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Max - if you’re asking about seeing both the outline and map views at once - simply use shift-cmd-N to open a new window, and you can switch that to the view requireed
12:40:07 From Max : ok, thank you Mark
12:40:19 From Peter Wasilko : We could have an agent assign a Folder prototype to all notes whose title ends with Folder!
12:40:50 From Dave Rogers : This is basic, Det. But we will likely get to the concept of an “alias” where a note can exist in many containers at one time.
12:40:51 From Donath, Sascha : for a “folder” i almost always use separators with names
12:40:56 From Mark Bernstein : Detlef: To link to a note inside a container, use the PARKING SPACE. Link to the parking space, then dive into the container and drag the link from the parking space to that note.
12:41:11 From Noor Khan : Is there a keyboard shortcut for switching between editing a note (i.e. the right pane) and left pane (map or outline)?
12:41:17 From Mark Bernstein : Peter Wasilko: yes!
12:41:24 From Detlef Beyer : should we think about the internal structure of our notes and add some attributes to all our notes from start?
12:41:29 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Detlef - there are several ways to flag notes as unique - either through applying and Attribute, or a Note icon, and so on. You can also create an Alias and place it in a separate Container, “Notes I may use elsewhere"
12:41:49 From Mark Bernstein : Noor Kham: Yes. Opt-tab
12:42:49 From Detlef Beyer : @Mark: I know how to solve it from the UI - but as soon as I put a note into a container I forget about it - that’s my main problem. I would like to make notes from project A available in project B without having to remember them
12:42:55 From Noor Khan : Thanks Mark
12:44:55 From Mark Bernstein : Detlef: I agree: this is a fundamental tension in the structure of knowledge. Can’t be solved, but understanding the tension is important.
12:45:42 From Max : Why we should use a separator?
12:45:49 From Mark Bernstein : Also, lots of ways to foreground notes you might overlook. Links! Agents! Note Of The Say!
12:46:05 From Peter Wasilko : Also I usually create a top level Resources note, give it a database icon, and set it to no export and no child export and put everything that isn’t going to be exported inside it like Templates, Prototypes, and Agents.
12:46:11 From Mark Bernstein : Note of the Day
12:46:31 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Separators are visible ONLY in Outline View - they help “tidy away” certain sections or to separate your Note/Container groups visually while in Outline View
12:46:44 From Carolivia Herron : I’d rather see Michael’s full vision of the class, and then come back with questions afterwards.
12:46:49 From Mark Bernstein : Max: Sometimes you want to break up a long list in an outline.
12:46:52 From Detlef Beyer : @Peter: I like this approach
12:47:02 From Dave Rogers : Separators are way of calling out structure. In larger outlines, they can help keep things a bit more comprehensible.
12:47:10 From Melvin Dubnick : After please
12:47:15 From Bob Powell : I vote for after the presentation.
12:47:20 From Donath, Sascha : separators help me to structure outlines: prototypes, texts, agents …
12:47:20 From Max : Thank you!
12:47:23 From Noor Khan : Lets do chat questions after the presentation
12:47:47 From John Holland : yes, after the presentation.
12:47:51 From Max : sorry for spontaneous questions)
12:48:01 From Melvin Dubnick : !!!A
12:48:29 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : No worries… i think we could try to keep answering minor questions while Michael talks - no need for everyone to focus on this, just the person asking…
12:49:10 From Mark Bernstein : Agreed
12:50:15 From Detlef Beyer : shouldn’t we have a folder called „to be published“ or „ready to publish“ since we may finish an article without publishing it immediately
12:50:36 From Mark Bernstein : absolutely
12:50:41 From Phillip Lloyd : I’ve got a new tinderbox file opening and am taking notes and saving links from the chat as well as saving chat comments in various notes as Michael talks. And also making notes about my questions. Later I can tidy it up.
12:50:53 From Mark Bernstein : +1
12:51:17 From Bruce Gale : @Phillip… Thanks so much for doing that!
12:52:33 From Bruce Gale : No one ever spell my name right. Yay Michael!
12:52:37 From Bruce Gale : spells
12:53:30 From Detlef Beyer : the word „folder“ in the name of a note is redundant - the structure already carries this information (in Mapview and Outline too)?!
12:54:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Detlef - yes usually… except if you want to refer to some external Folder outside Tbx… But in this case I believe Michael is using the word Folder simply as analogous to non-Tinderbox organizational usage
12:55:20 From Mark Bernstein : Detlef: yes. Sometimes, it may be useful to remind yourself, or to distinguish ‘IDEA FOLDER’ from ‘IDEA’
12:55:30 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Yes exactly
12:55:46 From Tilmann Altenberg : @Detlef: Yes, that’s correct. However, if you search for notes by name this implicit structure is not visible, so it can be helpful to use explicit names that carry information that is hidden in the hierarchy
12:56:23 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : When it comes to searching and so on - it’s most helpful to add Attributes while you enter Notes, or during a revision pass thereafter.
12:57:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : For example - if you are in Outline View, you can select “Use Columns”, then add an Attribute for whatever condition - or all. FOr example - just adding a single Attribute say “$2Sort”, and then drop little hints into the $2Sort column next to each Note…
12:58:50 From Detlef Beyer : just brought this in since IMHO it is important not to clutter your informations with any additional stuff that is not useful in a specific way. I’m somehow to sensible to this kind of stuff while cleaning big databases :wink:
12:59:20 From Peter Wasilko : InResponseTo - url value
12:59:21 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Fair enough. The beauty of Attributes is that you can choose to ignore them
13:00:03 From Dave Rogers : @Art… expanding on the idea of “incremental formalization” it’s not uncommon to add new attributes as you identify other items of information that should be part of a note. So, yes, adding attributes as you create notes is worthwhile. But you’re not constrained in any way from adding additional attributes later as your structure or flow evolves.
13:01:37 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Dave yes agreed
13:03:16 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Dave - also sometimes - in the interest of focusing on the idea being generated - it’s useful to create even a single $2Sort Attribute and dumping all manner of metadata into it, which can then be broken out later…
13:04:05 From Bruce Gale : Be right back
13:04:13 From Max : how can I change the data type of the attribute? (for instance from string to number)
13:04:35 From Mark Bernstein : In the user attribute pane of the document inspector
13:05:10 From Donath, Sascha : but you can only change the data type of user attributes - but not the built-in oneas
13:05:13 From Max : found it. thank you!
13:06:32 From Dave Rogers : Adding a NOTE to a container triggers on add.
13:06:34 From Mark Bernstein : True: you cannot change the type of system attributes, because most system attributes have a meaning that the system understands. For example, Color is always a color; if it were changed to a Date, Tinderbox wouldn’t know what color to use :slight_smile:
13:06:38 From Dave Rogers : OnAdd
13:07:41 From Noor Khan : Is there a manual for syntax of Action Code?
13:08:09 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Noor - aTBRef is a great source, as are the manual and The Tinderbox Way. Also the forums.
13:08:17 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : resource

13:08:18 From Mark Bernstein : Short manual in Tinderbox Help. Detailed manual in aTbRef: A Tinderbox Reference File
13:08:44 From Noor Khan : Thanks
13:08:52 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : OnAdd happens from the Action pane of the Attribute Inspector. Can you explain why an OnAdd attribute is being created? Just multiple ways of doing the same thing?
13:09:12 From Mark Bernstein : Multiple ways of doing the same thing
13:09:31 From David Eddy : minimum of three ways to say/do same thing
13:10:51 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : I believe the multiple ways of doing the same thing actually follow an instinct-friendly methodology. You can get to a place via shortcut, via Menu, via the Attribute Inspector, and also through the Note Information pane (cmd-opt-i)
13:11:01 From Max : That’s great Michael. Thank you!
13:11:23 From Max : Yes, the format is fantastic
13:11:25 From Enrico Nebbia : Great Michael!
13:12:08 From John Holland : I really appreciate the foundation lesson. I’ve used TbX for a few years, but you have filled in quite a few gaps in my knowledge of moves I could make in my work
13:12:31 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : Will we get tested to?
13:12:42 From David Eddy : Hopefully the date format can be automatically YYYYMMDD?
13:13:01 From John Holland : I have a project to write a quick grant proposal that is due this Wednesday. You have given me my template to get started.
13:13:29 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Yes, awesome process… I think we will have this pretty refined in a couple sessions!
13:13:34 From Mark Bernstein : ASSIGNMENT: create your own foundation. Start from a new document, add some ideas, then build a good structure. Include at least one OnAdd action!
13:13:41 From Dennis Lienke : Where are the “4 C”s?
13:13:58 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Dennis - Michael posted a tutorial and forum post about this…
13:14:34 From Dennis Lienke : @Art OK thanks.
13:14:48 From Mark Bernstein : Michael Becker also did a piece on the 4Cs for his Patreon: Michael Becker is creating training materials and thought-leadership | Patreon
13:14:52 From Larry Dunville : Michaels 4C article in full on both the TB forum as well as LinkedIn
13:16:01 From David Eddy : Mental navigation in n-dimensional space is something of a challenge.
13:17:16 From Max : Could you please demonstrate how to open an other view in a new window? (to be able to see both views at once)
13:17:29 From Max : Sorry for my English)
13:17:47 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Max - just press cmd-opt-N
13:17:54 From Larry Dunville : Interesting kindle book on Amazon
13:17:56 From Mark Bernstein : Chose File ▸ New Window. Or, drag a tab out of the window
13:17:57 From Larry Dunville : https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Zettelkasten-Principles-Methods-Examples-ebook/dp/B095VY4XGD/ref=sr_1_1?crid=A0V53QGWT99T&dchild=1&keywords=zettelkasten&qid=1631985443&s=digital-text&sprefix=zettalk%2Caps%2C174&sr=1-1
13:18:07 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Then you can cycle the View of either window
13:18:32 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : And any change you make in either Window is reflected on the other/s
13:18:34 From Detlef Beyer : a good one to start with Zettels: https://www.amazon.com/How-Take-Smart-Notes-Nonfiction-ebook/dp/B06WVYW33Y/ref=pd_sim_1/136-0381994-0889366?pd_rd_w=YpvF6&pf_rd_p=ea2ff367-bd36-4ec5-aee4-94c2aa42287d&pf_rd_r=E90Y4JF1VJCGTBD6GF3Z&pd_rd_r=bac48bd0-dd7c-4994-8cdb-2bed31360754&pd_rd_wg=DTltd&pd_rd_i=B06WVYW33Y&psc=1
13:18:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Document inspector = Cmd-3
13:21:22 From Max : Thank’s but I still can’t open the same file in a new widow
13:21:29 From David Eddy : Can that row & column spreadsheet structure (RDBMSs) be flipped on it’s side to become an inverted list?
13:21:47 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @David - that’s probably not a practical way to look at it
13:21:58 From Max : A new window opens with new project in it
13:22:06 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : But there is an entire section on cross-tabs in Tinderbox…
13:22:35 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @eastgate/@mwra can probably address that much better
13:22:46 From Max : Oh, sorry. Now it works
13:23:15 From Mark Bernstein : File ▸ New (⌘-N) opens a new document. File ▸ New Window (⇧⌘-N) opens a new window
13:23:55 From Detlef Beyer : I have to leave - thx a lot for the great workshop!
13:24:01 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : yes sorry, i indicated cmd-opt-N earlier… it’s cmd-shift-N
13:24:03 From Mark Bernstein : Thanks!
13:24:06 From Peter Wasilko : Some times I use a Meta-Attribute to tell and Agent what values I want in DisplayedAttributes so I can have different standard views
13:24:07 From Dave Rogers : The “Hello world” of Tinderbox
13:24:13 From Peter Wasilko : *tell an Agent
13:27:18 From Enrico Nebbia : I have to leave. Absolutely great class. Will the recording be available?
13:27:42 From Mark Bernstein : Yes: see link above in the chat
13:27:58 From Mark Bernstein : Meetup recordings: https://vimeo.com/eastgatesystems
13:28:03 From Donath, Sascha : you can also put notes into the separator
13:28:04 From Mark Bernstein : Thanks for coming!
13:28:14 From Donath, Sascha : at least in outline view
13:28:15 From Max : Michael, could you share your Patreon’s link?
13:28:48 From Mark Bernstein : Michael Becker’s Patreon: Michael Becker also did a piece on the 4Cs for his Patreon: Michael Becker is creating training materials and thought-leadership | Patreon
13:29:06 From Peter Wasilko : I experienced that Freak Out once!
13:31:10 From David Eddy : “folder”… multiple meanings for a term! Amazing concept/reality
13:32:02 From Dave Rogers : This has been great and a lot of fun. Thanks everyone. My plane may be here soon.
13:32:15 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Safe flight!!!
13:32:18 From Mark Bernstein : Glad your plane was late!
13:32:54 From Dave Rogers : Me too! I’m hanging on until they call boarding. Just didn’t want to leave without saying thanks.
13:35:49 From Mark Bernstein : Tinderbox on sale: Tinderbox: Buy Tinderbox Today
13:39:53 From David Eddy : Super!
13:40:19 From Max : Thank’s Michael!
13:40:30 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : Thank you all!
13:40:38 From Catherine : Thank you!!!