Here’s 9/18 (Blogging with Tinderbox Part 1)
12:03:27 From Doug Stansfield : drsdayton
12:04:01 From Robert Walsh : RobertW
12:04:06 From Anthony Caldwell : acaldwell
12:04:47 From Chuck Wade : eChuck (Chuck Wade, Massachusetts)
12:04:58 From Detlef Beyer : what are we posting here???
12:05:26 From Peter Wasilko : Peter from the Burbs north of NYC.
12:05:54 From Jeffery : Jeffery Smith
12:06:47 From Christina Marie Comeau : Christina from Ottawa, Canada
12:06:51 From Mark Bernstein : The forum discussion on organizing maps: Organizing essay with Map vs Outline
12:07:12 From Melvin Dubnick : Mdubnick, beverly MA
12:07:18 From Enrico Nebbia : Enrico from Barcelona, Spain
12:07:48 From Detlef Beyer : Detlef from Cologne, Germany
12:07:58 From Phillip Lloyd : Phillip from Nuremberg, Germany
12:08:27 From Hagen’s iPhone : hagenh60
12:08:51 From Donath, Sascha : Sascha from Germany
12:08:53 From Andrew Brown : Andrew - London, UK
12:09:15 From Carolivia Herron : Carolivia Herron, Washington, DC
12:14:31 From Michael Becker : What it takes to become an expert: Michael Becker on LinkedIn: Anders Ericsson: Dismantling the 10,000 Hour Rule
12:16:01 From Mark Bernstein : Meetup recordings: https://vimeo.com/eastgatesystems
12:16:38 From Mark Bernstein : Training Videos: Training Videos - Tinderbox Forum
12:16:57 From Carolivia Herron : Thanks for the links, Mark.
12:17:17 From Mark Bernstein : Meetup planning: MEETUP Planning - #19 by archurhh
12:19:52 From Robert Walsh : That’s one of my favorite color schemes- white on light blue.
12:21:35 From Dennis Lienke : Dennis Lienke from Minnesota
12:23:41 From Bruce Gale : Here is the link to Podfeet Nicillicast
12:23:43 From Bruce Gale : https://www.podfeet.com/blog/programming-by-stealth/
12:26:16 From Peter Wasilko : Can we get this file?
12:26:30 From Donath, Sascha : yes, i was wondering that too
12:36:05 From Larry Dunville : The file will be posted on the forum
12:36:16 From Dave Rogers : So, a key concept of Tinderbox is that the fundamental unit is the “note.” But every note is a container. So when Michael talks about “buckets” he’s being somewhat literal in the sense that a note can be a container for other notes.
12:37:03 From Max : Can we see both views at one moment?
12:37:26 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Can you clarify please, Max?
12:37:38 From Mark Bernstein : Detail: in outline view, shift-return (⇧-Return) creates a new note as a child of the selected note.
12:39:27 From Detlef Beyer : don’t you see a problem in putting notes into a container - your are grouping the notes, but you hide them in a way too. How do I connect to a note hidden in a container if I could use the same note within a 2nd project?
12:39:39 From Max : I mean are we able to see map and outline views at once (without switching)?
12:39:41 From Mark Bernstein : Max: you can open a second window. But it’s more idiomatic to compare views by switching tabs rather than side-by-side windows
12:40:07 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Max - if you’re asking about seeing both the outline and map views at once - simply use shift-cmd-N to open a new window, and you can switch that to the view requireed
12:40:07 From Max : ok, thank you Mark
12:40:19 From Peter Wasilko : We could have an agent assign a Folder prototype to all notes whose title ends with Folder!
12:40:50 From Dave Rogers : This is basic, Det. But we will likely get to the concept of an “alias” where a note can exist in many containers at one time.
12:40:51 From Donath, Sascha : for a “folder” i almost always use separators with names
12:40:56 From Mark Bernstein : Detlef: To link to a note inside a container, use the PARKING SPACE. Link to the parking space, then dive into the container and drag the link from the parking space to that note.
12:41:11 From Noor Khan : Is there a keyboard shortcut for switching between editing a note (i.e. the right pane) and left pane (map or outline)?
12:41:17 From Mark Bernstein : Peter Wasilko: yes!
12:41:24 From Detlef Beyer : should we think about the internal structure of our notes and add some attributes to all our notes from start?
12:41:29 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Detlef - there are several ways to flag notes as unique - either through applying and Attribute, or a Note icon, and so on. You can also create an Alias and place it in a separate Container, “Notes I may use elsewhere"
12:41:49 From Mark Bernstein : Noor Kham: Yes. Opt-tab
12:42:49 From Detlef Beyer : @Mark: I know how to solve it from the UI - but as soon as I put a note into a container I forget about it - that’s my main problem. I would like to make notes from project A available in project B without having to remember them
12:42:55 From Noor Khan : Thanks Mark
12:44:55 From Mark Bernstein : Detlef: I agree: this is a fundamental tension in the structure of knowledge. Can’t be solved, but understanding the tension is important.
12:45:42 From Max : Why we should use a separator?
12:45:49 From Mark Bernstein : Also, lots of ways to foreground notes you might overlook. Links! Agents! Note Of The Say!
12:46:05 From Peter Wasilko : Also I usually create a top level Resources note, give it a database icon, and set it to no export and no child export and put everything that isn’t going to be exported inside it like Templates, Prototypes, and Agents.
12:46:11 From Mark Bernstein : Note of the Day
12:46:31 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Separators are visible ONLY in Outline View - they help “tidy away” certain sections or to separate your Note/Container groups visually while in Outline View
12:46:44 From Carolivia Herron : I’d rather see Michael’s full vision of the class, and then come back with questions afterwards.
12:46:49 From Mark Bernstein : Max: Sometimes you want to break up a long list in an outline.
12:46:52 From Detlef Beyer : @Peter: I like this approach
12:47:02 From Dave Rogers : Separators are way of calling out structure. In larger outlines, they can help keep things a bit more comprehensible.
12:47:10 From Melvin Dubnick : After please
12:47:15 From Bob Powell : I vote for after the presentation.
12:47:20 From Donath, Sascha : separators help me to structure outlines: prototypes, texts, agents …
12:47:20 From Max : Thank you!
12:47:23 From Noor Khan : Lets do chat questions after the presentation
12:47:47 From John Holland : yes, after the presentation.
12:47:51 From Max : sorry for spontaneous questions)
12:48:01 From Melvin Dubnick : !!!A
12:48:29 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : No worries… i think we could try to keep answering minor questions while Michael talks - no need for everyone to focus on this, just the person asking…
12:49:10 From Mark Bernstein : Agreed
12:50:15 From Detlef Beyer : shouldn’t we have a folder called „to be published“ or „ready to publish“ since we may finish an article without publishing it immediately
12:50:36 From Mark Bernstein : absolutely
12:50:41 From Phillip Lloyd : I’ve got a new tinderbox file opening and am taking notes and saving links from the chat as well as saving chat comments in various notes as Michael talks. And also making notes about my questions. Later I can tidy it up.
12:50:53 From Mark Bernstein : +1
12:51:17 From Bruce Gale : @Phillip… Thanks so much for doing that!
12:52:33 From Bruce Gale : No one ever spell my name right. Yay Michael!
12:52:37 From Bruce Gale : spells
12:53:30 From Detlef Beyer : the word „folder“ in the name of a note is redundant - the structure already carries this information (in Mapview and Outline too)?!
12:54:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Detlef - yes usually… except if you want to refer to some external Folder outside Tbx… But in this case I believe Michael is using the word Folder simply as analogous to non-Tinderbox organizational usage
12:55:20 From Mark Bernstein : Detlef: yes. Sometimes, it may be useful to remind yourself, or to distinguish ‘IDEA FOLDER’ from ‘IDEA’
12:55:30 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Yes exactly
12:55:46 From Tilmann Altenberg : @Detlef: Yes, that’s correct. However, if you search for notes by name this implicit structure is not visible, so it can be helpful to use explicit names that carry information that is hidden in the hierarchy
12:56:23 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : When it comes to searching and so on - it’s most helpful to add Attributes while you enter Notes, or during a revision pass thereafter.
12:57:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : For example - if you are in Outline View, you can select “Use Columns”, then add an Attribute for whatever condition - or all. FOr example - just adding a single Attribute say “$2Sort”, and then drop little hints into the $2Sort column next to each Note…
12:58:50 From Detlef Beyer : just brought this in since IMHO it is important not to clutter your informations with any additional stuff that is not useful in a specific way. I’m somehow to sensible to this kind of stuff while cleaning big databases
12:59:20 From Peter Wasilko : InResponseTo - url value
12:59:21 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Fair enough. The beauty of Attributes is that you can choose to ignore them
13:00:03 From Dave Rogers : @Art… expanding on the idea of “incremental formalization” it’s not uncommon to add new attributes as you identify other items of information that should be part of a note. So, yes, adding attributes as you create notes is worthwhile. But you’re not constrained in any way from adding additional attributes later as your structure or flow evolves.
13:01:37 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Dave yes agreed
13:03:16 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Dave - also sometimes - in the interest of focusing on the idea being generated - it’s useful to create even a single $2Sort Attribute and dumping all manner of metadata into it, which can then be broken out later…
13:04:05 From Bruce Gale : Be right back
13:04:13 From Max : how can I change the data type of the attribute? (for instance from string to number)
13:04:35 From Mark Bernstein : In the user attribute pane of the document inspector
13:05:10 From Donath, Sascha : but you can only change the data type of user attributes - but not the built-in oneas
13:05:13 From Max : found it. thank you!
13:06:32 From Dave Rogers : Adding a NOTE to a container triggers on add.
13:06:34 From Mark Bernstein : True: you cannot change the type of system attributes, because most system attributes have a meaning that the system understands. For example, Color is always a color; if it were changed to a Date, Tinderbox wouldn’t know what color to use
13:06:38 From Dave Rogers : OnAdd
13:07:41 From Noor Khan : Is there a manual for syntax of Action Code?
13:08:09 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Noor - aTBRef is a great source, as are the manual and The Tinderbox Way. Also the forums.
13:08:17 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : resource
13:08:18 From Mark Bernstein : Short manual in Tinderbox Help. Detailed manual in aTbRef: A Tinderbox Reference File
13:08:44 From Noor Khan : Thanks
13:08:52 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : OnAdd happens from the Action pane of the Attribute Inspector. Can you explain why an OnAdd attribute is being created? Just multiple ways of doing the same thing?
13:09:12 From Mark Bernstein : Multiple ways of doing the same thing
13:09:31 From David Eddy : minimum of three ways to say/do same thing
13:10:51 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : I believe the multiple ways of doing the same thing actually follow an instinct-friendly methodology. You can get to a place via shortcut, via Menu, via the Attribute Inspector, and also through the Note Information pane (cmd-opt-i)
13:11:01 From Max : That’s great Michael. Thank you!
13:11:23 From Max : Yes, the format is fantastic
13:11:25 From Enrico Nebbia : Great Michael!
13:12:08 From John Holland : I really appreciate the foundation lesson. I’ve used TbX for a few years, but you have filled in quite a few gaps in my knowledge of moves I could make in my work
13:12:31 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : Will we get tested to?
13:12:42 From David Eddy : Hopefully the date format can be automatically YYYYMMDD?
13:13:01 From John Holland : I have a project to write a quick grant proposal that is due this Wednesday. You have given me my template to get started.
13:13:29 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Yes, awesome process… I think we will have this pretty refined in a couple sessions!
13:13:34 From Mark Bernstein : ASSIGNMENT: create your own foundation. Start from a new document, add some ideas, then build a good structure. Include at least one OnAdd action!
13:13:41 From Dennis Lienke : Where are the “4 C”s?
13:13:58 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Dennis - Michael posted a tutorial and forum post about this…
13:14:34 From Dennis Lienke : @Art OK thanks.
13:14:48 From Mark Bernstein : Michael Becker also did a piece on the 4Cs for his Patreon: Michael Becker is creating training materials and thought-leadership | Patreon
13:14:52 From Larry Dunville : Michaels 4C article in full on both the TB forum as well as LinkedIn
13:16:01 From David Eddy : Mental navigation in n-dimensional space is something of a challenge.
13:17:16 From Max : Could you please demonstrate how to open an other view in a new window? (to be able to see both views at once)
13:17:29 From Max : Sorry for my English)
13:17:47 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @Max - just press cmd-opt-N
13:17:54 From Larry Dunville : Interesting kindle book on Amazon
13:17:56 From Mark Bernstein : Chose File ▸ New Window. Or, drag a tab out of the window
13:17:57 From Larry Dunville : https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Zettelkasten-Principles-Methods-Examples-ebook/dp/B095VY4XGD/ref=sr_1_1?crid=A0V53QGWT99T&dchild=1&keywords=zettelkasten&qid=1631985443&s=digital-text&sprefix=zettalk%2Caps%2C174&sr=1-1
13:18:07 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Then you can cycle the View of either window
13:18:32 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : And any change you make in either Window is reflected on the other/s
13:18:34 From Detlef Beyer : a good one to start with Zettels: https://www.amazon.com/How-Take-Smart-Notes-Nonfiction-ebook/dp/B06WVYW33Y/ref=pd_sim_1/136-0381994-0889366?pd_rd_w=YpvF6&pf_rd_p=ea2ff367-bd36-4ec5-aee4-94c2aa42287d&pf_rd_r=E90Y4JF1VJCGTBD6GF3Z&pd_rd_r=bac48bd0-dd7c-4994-8cdb-2bed31360754&pd_rd_wg=DTltd&pd_rd_i=B06WVYW33Y&psc=1
13:18:56 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Document inspector = Cmd-3
13:21:22 From Max : Thank’s but I still can’t open the same file in a new widow
13:21:29 From David Eddy : Can that row & column spreadsheet structure (RDBMSs) be flipped on it’s side to become an inverted list?
13:21:47 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @David - that’s probably not a practical way to look at it
13:21:58 From Max : A new window opens with new project in it
13:22:06 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : But there is an entire section on cross-tabs in Tinderbox…
13:22:35 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : @eastgate/@mwra can probably address that much better
13:22:46 From Max : Oh, sorry. Now it works
13:23:15 From Mark Bernstein : File ▸ New (⌘-N) opens a new document. File ▸ New Window (⇧⌘-N) opens a new window
13:23:55 From Detlef Beyer : I have to leave - thx a lot for the great workshop!
13:24:01 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : yes sorry, i indicated cmd-opt-N earlier… it’s cmd-shift-N
13:24:03 From Mark Bernstein : Thanks!
13:24:06 From Peter Wasilko : Some times I use a Meta-Attribute to tell and Agent what values I want in DisplayedAttributes so I can have different standard views
13:24:07 From Dave Rogers : The “Hello world” of Tinderbox
13:24:13 From Peter Wasilko : *tell an Agent
13:27:18 From Enrico Nebbia : I have to leave. Absolutely great class. Will the recording be available?
13:27:42 From Mark Bernstein : Yes: see link above in the chat
13:27:58 From Mark Bernstein : Meetup recordings: https://vimeo.com/eastgatesystems
13:28:03 From Donath, Sascha : you can also put notes into the separator
13:28:04 From Mark Bernstein : Thanks for coming!
13:28:14 From Donath, Sascha : at least in outline view
13:28:15 From Max : Michael, could you share your Patreon’s link?
13:28:48 From Mark Bernstein : Michael Becker’s Patreon: Michael Becker also did a piece on the 4Cs for his Patreon: Michael Becker is creating training materials and thought-leadership | Patreon
13:29:06 From Peter Wasilko : I experienced that Freak Out once!
13:31:10 From David Eddy : “folder”… multiple meanings for a term! Amazing concept/reality
13:32:02 From Dave Rogers : This has been great and a lot of fun. Thanks everyone. My plane may be here soon.
13:32:15 From Art Currim (@archurrh) : Safe flight!!!
13:32:18 From Mark Bernstein : Glad your plane was late!
13:32:54 From Dave Rogers : Me too! I’m hanging on until they call boarding. Just didn’t want to leave without saying thanks.
13:35:49 From Mark Bernstein : Tinderbox on sale: Tinderbox: Buy Tinderbox Today
13:39:53 From David Eddy : Super!
13:40:19 From Max : Thank’s Michael!
13:40:30 From Bill Schwartz (@_Bill) : Thank you all!
13:40:38 From Catherine : Thank you!!!