Tinderbox Forum

Tinderbox mentioned in this article

Tinderbox is mentioned in this article that is about Roam Research: https://roamingwriting.substack.com/p/roam-research-as-the-tesla-of-note

It correctly mentions that Tinderbox already had the ability to link notes from its inception.

Thanks. In reading the linked article I hit irony overload at this plient:

Backlinks or bidirectional links, for example, are not features added to Roam. They are at the core of Roam because it’s an app built on relationships. For that, Roam Research uses a graph database. That is the real game-changer.

It … like … Roam’s … authors … have … never … heard … of … hypertext. :roll_eyes:

Yes, the irony was not lost on me…

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@mwra, but wasn’t the internet invented yesterday, email this morning, and Roam five minutes ago? :slight_smile:

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I think that’s part of the dissonance. This isn’t like someone’s found a long abandoned thing and brought it back to life, but more like seeing the kid the next yard over is selling a drink made from lemons and them putting up a big LEMONADE sign and thinking you’ve invented a new beverage. Lest it appear otherwise, I’m not imputing bad behaviour: most of human error boils down to stupidity or ignorance (perhaps the latter case here).

The ‘sell’ would be more convincing if better tied to prior art, as that a stronger sell for those looking for substance rather than bling.

There are two parallel issues here. If app X works for someone, use app X. The more contentious thread is “I really like X, everyone should use X”, especially if the ‘sell’ is all emotion and no substance. That doesn’t invalidate the first case, it just makes considered folk cautious.

Google returns no info on Roam’s linkbase. How do you view this? Can you have multiple link bases (yes, back pre-Web this was a thing), etc. This ‘clever’ linking reminds me more of those link-spamming app of the late-90s web that looked for possible link (anchors). Links are best if meaningful.

But, I know i’m in a minority on that. Is the computer always so much smarter. the more i look, the less of that I see outside very narrow domain application. Otherwise, with a nod to the Pythons, it’s all just word-association-football.

YMMV!

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Aaah! Evidence of yet another cognitive bias, methinks: Availability heuristic :slight_smile:

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Good point. I think this is another strand of info to pull together for (new) Tinderbox users—or those stuck spinning their wheels in low gear—under the guise of misconceptions and false assumptions. We’re all prone to these and they sometimes sit there hiding comfortably in plain sight until someone gently illuminates them. There have been a couple of lovely instances recently where people pushed through to to more productive use and I happy to anything to help there be more.

Yes, I like this point about the availability heuristic. I am so surprised that while everyone knows that Web 3.0 is all about going p2p, local, that people pay hundreds of dollars for hosted notes. Do people gladly lock themselves in, making their notes hostage to cloud servers? It seems magic or hypnotism is at play here. Apparently they also got millions of dollars in seed money. Because of linking notes? I remember the days I played with Hypercard. Now in those days, that was amazing.

How does everyone know that? Or agree with it? Or even care about it?

There seems to have be a rapid expansion of SaaS in the past decade in all domains, corporate to personal. Partly, I suspect, because it makes collaboration simpler in corporate or academic environments and that sloshes over to personal work. Aren’t we all typing our opinions into this Discourse SaaS that Eastgate sponsors?

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Well, who wants to turn their private notes on a hosted service which has outages, and who may sell you notes to be read by machines etc. So I make choices about what I put on hosted websites and what I keep to myself. Just type in web 3.0 in google etc.

Not understood, what is the point here?. There is no character limit here (I appreciate you may be posting from a phone). Could you explain what this means for Tinderbox users working on a (desktop) computer?

I’m also confused by the reference to ‘Web 3.0’. Aren’t we already on Web 4.x or even Web N? People were describing Web 3.0 as done some years ago. What is the canonical source for these memes? I only ask as I presume he term has some underlying meaning rather than being a textual GIF. (not snark, I write this having lived through and survived Web 1.0, etc.)