Displaying the container hierarchy for a selected Note : cant work out how!

Sometimes, if I go to a note using a URL or link, the associated ‘view’ (in screens where there is the View + Text) does not reflect the current notes container hierarchy. For example, if you have the URL of a note and click on it, the note text is there but the ‘view’ (ie the container) does not change to reflect the current note, and remains showing whatever it was before. (for example : when I have a ‘today’ note open as text window with zip-links to other notes. I click on the ziplink which then shows the note in the main tinderbox window, but does not update the map/outline view to the appropriate container)
Is there a command to refresh the view so that it shows the context for the current note? If one could open a new tab centred from the current note to show its place in the container hierarchy (either online or map view) that would be fine. This would also work when looking at a note in hyperbolic view (ie I cant work out how to open a selected note in map view with its correct context) . Perhaps one can, and Im missing something.

There are lots of variables here, to do with the type of view, the scope of the view (e.g. whole doc or just part of the outline so it is hard to recreate your scenario in order to answer it properly.

Could you upload a small document that shows the problem as it would help in terms of giving you an answer (rather than an essay on how tab focus works).

I think the short answer is ‘no’ in that from the context of the text pane of a tab there isn’t a command to show the currently selected note in view (and using that view type). I think the fastest approach is to:

  • In the text pane drag select the title and copy (Cmd+C)
  • Click in the view pane
  • Cmd+F to show the view pane Find bar (top of the pane) … if not already showing
  • Click in the input box, paste the note Name and hit Return
  • In the Find results pop-up locate the note (N.B. aliases, e.g. in agents, will be in Italics) and right click and from the contextual menu select Open in New Tab.

Having waded through the many things you can do (but not this! ), it does seem this could be made easier by adding the Open in New Tab to the View menu (including when focus is in the text pane).

At the same time, be aware that in other use contexts you won’t want the view to change, so both processes need to co-exist or we merely set up for a different “why can’t I…/why doesn’t it just?” question.

I suspect, in part, this issue is that standalone text windows post date the v6 UI design. At the time Mac fashionistas over-egged their very vocal desire for the then on-trend single window Mac apps. Cool for tiny to-do apps but ultimately self-limiting in rich tools like Tinderbox. Thus, happily, the subsequent support for multiple document windows and stand-alone text windows. Yet, with more UI elements in a rich toolbox the scope for unexpected configuration interactions increases.

Many thanks, good to know that I am not missing something obvious. Im sure I could narrow down the cases where this happens. Im only really trying to get to other notes on the same level (though of course its good to be able to navigate around the note),

“Open in New Tab** to the View menu (including when focus is in the text pane ).”

would be great.

In “Bear” it is very easy to navigate to the containing contexts/hierarchies for a note as they are clickable inside the note, so you have both an 'inside" and an “outside” representation of the hierarchy. Tinderbox already has this in the ‘container’ attribute of the note, but I cant seem to use that to refocus the surrounding view.

In Tinderbox, it is very easy to navigate to the containing contexts/hierarchies for a note.

  1. The Breadcrumb Bar shows you the ancestors of the view. Click on any breadcrumb item to hoist the view to that container. (Fun fact: I introduced the term “breadcrumb” in Bernstein, M., & Thorsen, L. (1987). Developing Dynamic Documents: Special Challenges for Techical Communicators. 34th International Technical Communications Conference, Seattle.)

  2. View ▸ Expand (⇧⌘-up-arrow) moves the view to the parent of its current parent.

  3. You can display $Path in the displayed attributes table.

  4. In actions, $Path gives you the path, and the ancestors designator gives you a list of ancestors.

In a very limited number of contexts, notable text windows, Tinderbox allows you to select a note that is not in the current view. That’s a convenience for people who want it. If you don’t want it, don’t use those features.

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Thanks for the reply. I use the breadcrumbs and other navigation commands, and they are very clear.
Forgive my lack of comprehension, but when you say
"In a very limited number of contexts, notable text windows, Tinderbox allows you to select a note that is not in the current view. " - it seems that this is true sometimes but not always.
I use the text-window as a starting place from which to jump to a variety of notes (without losing my bearings) which get selected in the-main window. Usually the view that goes with the note is the closest level that contains the note i.e fully down to the last breadcrumb. But sometimes it is not, and might be a higher breadcrumb. What I was after was a simple way of getting to the view that would correspond with the lowest breadcrumb - to be able to go ‘down’ the path towards the note

By the way, congratulations on bringing the ‘breadcrumb’ metaphor to the world! Amazing. (as is Tinderbox, of course)
Best wishes

The answer is both simple and complex, to do with the ‘scope’ of the front tab’s view. Essentially, and not that it generally matter, notes are stored as a an outline. Indeed, the default outline view of a new note shows the outline of the whole document, whereas a map shows only the contents of one container. Confusion arises as in a new TBX both show the ‘root’ of the document: the map the sibling notes in the top of the outline, the outline all the same plus their nested descendants. If you see a breadcrumb bar in a view, of whatever type you are not at root.

Why is scope a factor? If you follow a (normally text) link from a stand-alone window, the front document window will show the target note in the text pane, and if in scope and visible in-scope (I’ll explain below) will select that document and (I think) scroll it into the visible part of the view pane.

'Visible"? Yes, consider an outline view where the note is in-scope but the branch in which the note lives is folded (collapsed). In such a case (I can’t speak to the rationale) the note is selected but can’t be seen as such unless the branch is currently expanded.

Leaving stand-alone text windows aside for a moment, multiple document windows always share the same selection (when switching window focus) for technical reasons I won’t dive into here (i.e seemingly unhelpful yet not by design intent, but constraint). Conversely tabs do hold a discrete focus if the focus altered elsewhere is not in scope of this tab. If the latter occurs the out of focus tab takes a new focus, i.e the one in the switched-from tab.

Also, switching view-type of a current tab maintains scope (at lease for views that support scope (e.g. not Hyperbolic view, etc.)

TL:DR tabs have different focus except when they do. Tinderbox is a big and complex toolbox can’t can’t be optimised for each user’s individual context. Counter-intuitively everyone else doesn’t use the toolbox exactly as we ourselves do.s

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Many thanks for the extensive reply, its very helpful to understand the why and way of this, and the ‘in scope’ concept. You have an admirable grasp of the terminology!