Hi all … I ran across you all and TBX care of WinterFest 2024 (care of a DevonThink email I received). On the surface I like what TBX offers but I downloaded it several days ago and feel fairly lost and have the feeling like I need a degree to use it – it seems very powerful but …
Currently I tend to like to use mindmaps (I use MindNode on MacOS) to track ideas in a visual format which just works for me – terse notes are fine to just capture a thought in a bigger “tree”. For instance I’m working on what will eventually be a set of charts for a presentation on cybersecurity and I’m just in the phase of collecting thoughts that I want to add somewhere in the charts.
I’d love to wrap my brain around how to use TBX in this sort of setting as I think it is more than capable of doing it.
Tinderbox is a powerful and sophisticated tool that rewards commitment and study. It’s unlike any other tool, so be wary of expectations regarding its apparent “similarity” to something like MindNode. They can confuse and mislead you.
Take a look at last weekend’s meetup on YouTube. Use the scrubber to skip ahead until you see Michael using Map view, before he transitions to Outline view.
This will give you some idea of the Tinderbox paradigm.
I think it’s important to note that if you’re just working on charts and presentations, there may be other tools that offer some improvement over MindNode, without the learning curve that Tinderbox often requires. While Tinderbox can be used for presentations, that’s not its main purpose, and it’s rather unconventional in that role. That may lead to some frustration.
You don’t need a degree to use Tinderbox. You do need to spend time using it, and approaching it with a very open mind.
There is a trove of valuable videos on YouTube that can illustrate what Tinderbox is capable of, and how people use it.
And the forum is a tremendous resource. Feel free to ask questions.
Hi and welcome to Tinderbox. You can start out by making fairly straightforward mind maps in the Map View of Tinderbox. You can start out with the demo version, it has a Note limit but is otherwise fully functional. The app help and the absolutely fabulous independent resource aTbRef are great resources to help pin down concepts. There’s also “The Tinderbox Way”, separately available from eastgate.com.
As you familiarize yourself with the interface and are able to break things, it will surely get more interesting and clearer to determine if Tinderbox is actually the tool you need.
There are plenty of resources here on the forum that list popular start-out videos. Further, there’s always someone to answer specific queries.
Join one of the Meetups and we’ll be happy to do a run-through of a typical think-work process that you might like to start out with.
aTbRef and be found at https://atbref.com, which points to the current version of the resource (disclaimer, I’m aTbRef’s author).
I’d repeat @dmrogers’ point about not trying to view Tinderbox is terms of some other app or process. Doing so leads to concentrate on differences and treat everything as a problem … because Tinderbox is not like other app/process.
A note is Tinderbox’s ‘atomic’ unit. Depending on the view you choose, the note appears a different way—but is the same thing (the same stored information). For instance, add a note (or select one already in a document) to a map and select it. Then change to outline: same selection, different appearance. Now from the app’s view menu choose another view. Yes, still the same information, presented a different way.
I mention these views not because everyone needs every view but to show how Tinderbox has a rich structure compared to other noting apps. In the latter you will likely have one view and be able to style that view, but not change the view’s form of presentation.
Similarly, a simple mind map will have a title per box and may have additional notes (either visible or not) and perhaps a URL link. More powerful mind maps may offer more of the same.
By comparison, a note in Tinderbox is built up of attributes: these might be called fields or properties in other apps. You can just use the title (Name attribute value) and the text (Text attribute) because that looks like what you are used to. However, it is a bit like driving a racing car in first gear. That said, it can be a way to get started though do remind yourself you’re only using bottom gear and to explore the richer functionality on offer.
The sense of complexity is self-imposed but stems from the fact that most apps only have a limited purpose and allow the user to do a limited range of things. This makes them ‘easy’ as learning becomes a matter of which button/menu to click. Deeper tools offer more choice but are so because their users have more complex needs and no one does exactly the same thing as others (even if they assume they do). As a result there is a rarely a single ‘right’ way to do an overall task. In turn, this means that “how do I…?” questions based on how the outcome looks become unproductive and makes it hard for fellow users to help (and this is a helpful forum). Questions based on other apps limit the help available unless there are other users who are both experienced users of Tinderbox and of [other app]. Phrasing questions in terms of Tinderbox terminology and the desired outcome in terms of text and attributes (as opposed to simply what it looks like) will repay you rapidly.
Tips (which are good for any new start(:
Learn new things in a new Tinderbox document, not in your main file(s). Even better, start the test with an intent throw away the new document once you’ve learned how to do the new thing. That way, you test until you understand, use the eventual learning in your main document and can throw away the cruft of all the experimentation involved in learning. This stops your main document acquiring the cruft of failed experiments.
Don’t assume others know of or use apps that you know well (unless you see them actively discussed).
When discussing the document, try to use Tinderbox’s terminology as it helps others understand what you mean. For instance, not all people might assume that a (database) ‘field’ is essentially the same as a (Tinderbox) attribute so might not feel able to help). The same goes for describing how [another app] looks as if one doesn’t have/use that app the description is not meaningful (even if meant to be so).
The forum does allow upload of Tinderbox documents (TBX files). If stuck it can be helpful to upload a TBX so helpers have a common frame of reference. ‘Fixing’ another person’s problem file and re-uploading it is a useful way let others help one. Bear in mind:
Smaller files are better. The less unnecessary detail you make the reader (the person taking time to help you) wade through, the higher the chance of getting help. Anyway, abstracting the logic and minimum structure/attributes/etc to show the issue can help both you and the helper understand the real problem beneath the look of this (i.e. why it is, not how it looks).
Don’t assume the task is self-evident. Add note(s) in the document explaining the problem and the need for the customisations used. Don’t assume the helper is working on the file whilst reading the forum thread: some answers take a bit of pondering.
When the issue is automation or export:
It can help to include a section in the document showing your desired outcome mocked up ‘by hand’.
If you’ve got part way with some coding, do include it and say where in the document to file it.
Don’t upload your main personal TBX files as this is a public forum. (q.v. above - less is more when testing.
If ‘just’ trying to make a mind-map to copy into [some other] presentation app, note that you can export a whole map, even if not all visible in the current view window. See the Edit menu option Copy View As Image (⇧⌘Z ). The article explains a bit more about the formats (raster vs vector) that are possible.
Tinderbox is large, but nobody needs all of it! Don’t worry too much about what you don’t need at the moment; it’s nice to know things are there when you need them.
If you find yourself stuck, ask in the forum; it’s really good (as you see!).
One nice thing that you can use right away for your cybersecurity brainstorming is the map view, which is like a free-form mind map without the hierarchical constraints. Then, when you’re ready to sort ideas into lists and outlines, you might jump into outline view. There’s a lot here
Tinderbox is the most powerful knowledge management tool that I’ve ever come across—especially in that it works nicely with other applications and paradigms.
At first glance, it can seem daunting in its interface, but the design leans toward elegant simplicity rather than simplicity. @eastgate and the TBX community have spent the last two decades navigating the world of complexity to get to this elegant simplicity.
Tinderbox is a toolset that empowers you to get close to your thinking. To look at your thoughts through the 10 built-in views, your own templates, and an infinite number of open-source visualizations. It offers action code to automatically help you work with your thoughts and a templating layer to help you transform these thoughts into contributions.
You will find many people pine about the “steep learning” curve of Tinderbox. But, I think it is less about learning Tinderbox and more about learning about your own mind—metacognition—learning to ask yourself the “right questions”, to start viewing the world through the lens of metadata, and finally taking on the responsibility of adopting the right tool for the right job and leveraging community when you need help. Through Tinderbox, it is my experience that you can learn the languages of computing and knowledge management, learnings that extend far beyond your use of Tinderbox and into the rest of your life.
There are MANY resources to help you with Tinderbox:
Again, it can take some time to familiarize yourself with Tinderbox, but once you do you can save time, generate better insights, create a lasting asset, learn new skills and ways of thinking, make friends along the way, and SOOOO much more.
Tinderbox has an internal mind map called Map View; Map View lets you build all kinds of mind maps. But it does not stop there; from there, you can take the same work and then create lists, presentations, tables, reports, and so very much more. I’m not familiar with MindNode, but I suspect we can find some nice synergies between the two tools. The case would be to leverage images between the two.
I would very much like to set up a call with you to discuss your cybersecurity interests. I’m involved in this field as well. I’ll DM you. Perhaps we can set up a Zoom call and discuss Tinderbox and Cybersecurity—and exchange ideas.
Yikes you all! I was NOT expecting the responses you all provided – with well thought out answers! I thank each one of you for the great responses. Yes I should have worded things different. I only mentioned the tool I’m using now as a reference and not so much as a comparison as I know there is no comparison to be done between these tools as they’re considerably different.
I will take a leap here and just try some things with TBX. I think one of the things that might help me in my early journey of playing with this new (for me) tool is to be able to put little notes together and for instance I think I can use attributes to record (for instance) reference URLs for citations associated with my individual notes. This is conjecture at this point as I’ve not actually tried it but Mark’s (mwra) comment earlier made that pop into my head.
Also, I’m not going to use this solely for charts – but that just happens to be something I’m working on at the moment. I love journaling, and I believe at some point I’ll be writing some books in the not too distant future and I’m believing this tool will help in these areas in some capacity. Thanks again everyone for the feedback, direction and encouragement!
You’ve got a nice place here carved out on the internet and I think I’ll be visiting regularly…
Welcome! You’ll find here all the free help you need on your journey – and probably will soon be helping others with their exploration of Tinderbox’s power sooner than you think. The power of this community is its open-handed generosity.
