Tinderbox Forum

Keeping notes visible in Map view

Hi everyone, I have a small problem of notes wandering in Map view. Well, not really wandering; it’s the view that wanders away from the notes.
I have two containers in a TBX document. I’m looking at their contents in Map view. Each container has a tab at the top of the window: Container A, Container B, so I can switch between them with a mouse click. I would like for the notes in each tab to remain centered in the tab’s pane when I switch between containers, but they gradually disappear out of the visible confines of the pane each time I switch tabs, even when I don’t touch anything in either Map pane with the mouse.
Failing that, I would like a quick way to recenter the tab’s contents within the visible boundaries of the tab’s window/pane.
Now here’s a curious thing: Container A’s view gradually moves towards the top of the window, while Container B’s view gradually moves towards the bottom of the window. This happens even when I do nothing but switch back and forth between the two tabs.
I have the notes in each container arranged so that I can see all the notes in the Map pane at once. The text pane for both containers is closed.
When I click the tab for Container B to jump there to view its notes, I can no longer see all of its notes. The Map view has auto-scrolled towards the bottom of the window, so that the topmost notes in my map view are now out of sight. The right scroll bar has moved toward the bottom of the window. So I use the grabber hand to recenter the notes in the map view.
Same thing happens when I click the tab for Container A, except the view has moved towards the top of the pane and the notes at the bottom of my map are out of sight.
Is there a way to prevent this auto-scroll creep? If not, is there a quick way to recenter the Map’s notes so that they are all visible again?
MacOS 10.11.6, Tinderbox 7.5.4, 2010 15 inch MBP
I appreciate any suggestions you may have.

7.5.4, 10.13.5, 2013 MBAir 13"

I can’t replicate this. I made an new TBX with a map tab and an outline. I set up the outline like so:


In the outline tab I hoisted container MM and changed the view type to Map. in the original Map tab I selected AA and drilled down. I now have a window with 2 tabs, both maps one showing the contents of AA the other of BB. In both views I moved the notes on the map to the centre of the view.

Sorry for all the pre-amble but I want to ensure I’m replicating you scenario.

Now I switch back and forth between tabs. The map content doesn’t move. As my scenario is as simple as possible I wonder if other factors are at play here.

I have a very similar problem. This thing (that the map does not stay centered, or in the state where I left it) also happens, when I drill down into a container and back up and down and so on. For example, you mark a container and use the down and up cursor to switch back and forth. With every switch the displacement of the map increases. I can record a little video of this later…


The map traversal up/down is a known issue. It stems from the fact, at least as I understand it, that when you navigate up, the parent container remembers where you where on that map when you left it. IOW, the parent container now shows you where you were when you left as opposed to when you entered.

If you want to fix the position of the viewport use $MapScrollX and $MapScrollY via a rule to reset the viewport scope (see more).

All that said, if you just drill down and back up, I do think there is some shift in the map position for reasons unclear. It is a known/reported issue. If you need more as to why, that too is a question best asked of support. HTH.

Thanks Mark,
Other factors that could be contributing:

  • I have 3 containers in my document, and 2 of them correspond to the 2 tabs I use to switch back and forth between Containers A and B, both viewed as maps. The third container I view only as part of the whole document Outline. I have that outline in a third tab.
  • I have aliases in Container B of some notes in Container A. Does the different position of the aliases in B from their notes in A have an effect on the positioning of the maps?
  • There are 11 adornments (actually adornments as small photos) in Container A. Two in Container B.
  • Container B has 4 composites. Container A has none.

And are some other odd things.

  • If I switch the position of the tabs for Containers A and B in the tab bar, the direction of autoscrolling is also switched! So now the view for Container A is moving towards the bottom (I think it’s actually the bottom/right) of the window/pane—the opposite of what it was doing before. Container B’s autoscrolling is also reversed. I.e., the autoscrolling direction of the pane is reversed from what it was before I physically changed the position of the two tabs in the tab bar below the titlebar.

  • Switching between the Outline tab and the tab for Container A causes the view for Container A to jump all at once to the bottom right corner of the Map pane (the notes are nearly out of sight towards the upper left, while the view is centered at the lower right corner). Same thing (not reversed movement in this case) happens when switching between the Outline tab and Container B tab.

  • And one final oddity in this document: This are what appear to be ghost artifacts (two composite outlines and a displaced, unconnected link with the word “Action”) on the right side of the notes in Container B. They show up only when I switch from the Outline tab to the tab for Container B, and they disappear as soon as I move the map in the pane with the grabber hand. So maybe some corruption in this file?

All in all, a lot of puzzling activity.

No. It is for this reason some attributes are intrinsic. thus an alias can, for instance, have a different $Width, $Height, $Xpos and $Ypos as its original whilst $Color will be the same for both.

This is the sort of issue is hard to figure out via the forum. Even if fellow users can replicate the effect we can’t see under the hood. I’d suggest at this point that you contact support and send a copy of the file that shows the effect you describe.

Hi, I must admit I completely stopt using the map view because of it’s strange, unpredictable behavior. An example? I make 3 notes in map view, link them and center them on the screen. Then I choose the Outline view with the second standard tab, click nothing(!), just go back to the map view via the tab.
My three notes are no longer in sight. I first have to scroll the screen just to find them.
I’ve tried to figure out how the keep them in the center of the map view, but without any result. It became so enervating that I just don’t use it anymore. What is a pity, 'cause it could be useful for me.
Maybe it is just one small setting I have to change, I don’t know. Although I doubt it.

This cosmetic issue has been addressed in the current version.

Did you report the matter to to tech support?

I’m using the most recent version, 7.5.4. So, as far as I see, it is not really addressed. (In my point of view, it is more than a cosmetic issue. It makes a feature virtually unusable)
From what I could find on the forum, and the fact that there is little info about it (or it may be well hidden :slight_smile:) and I remember the phenomenon from older versions I owned, I thought is was ment to be that way.
I’ll report it.

I wrote a novel in map view; the feature pretty usable to me. But of course you may have different views and Tinderbox is not meant to be useful to everyone.

I’m not saying it is not useful, on the contrary. That is why I don’t think that the map view jumping around is/was just something cosmetic. I’d love to use it, instead of trying to find my notes every time I click on the map view tab. But it is coming. Oké. I’ll wait until it arrives.

Toggling back from outline to map presents a blank screen (map far off stage) when the map is not in any container other than the document itself.

This can arise easily for a beginner who goes with the landing screen proposition that we start our journey in map mode by clicking as invited, and only getting into outlines later.

Whenever one flips to the uncontained top-level map from the outline derived from it, nothing is to be seen - the map is far off screen, and has to be repeatedly dragged back into view.

(The fix is to migrate the map into a container, clean up any transitional sequelae, and focus the view down on the new container)

Seen today in Version 8.0.1 (b366)

(This is rarely encountered, I would guess, by experienced users who start with outlines, and who rarely see or create a map that is contained only by the document itself).

Perhaps worth reducing friction and puzzlement for beginners by rethinking what happens by default with viewports in these cases ?

This is not my experience. In fact, switching to a top-level map is quite common for many Tinderbox users.

Please send a copy of your document to bernstein@eastgate.com and we’ll investigate.

This is exactly what I am seeing in Version 8.7.0 (b464), on Mojave with a MBP.

I’ve had Tinderbox for years, but I’d still be classified as a “new user,” because I’ve never been able to get my head around it.

I tried the trick of putting the map into a container, but when I go to outline view and then back to Map view, the container is way up in the left-hand corner of the map, and I have to scroll to find it.

I really, really need to use Tinderbox for a project I’m doing, in which I am trying to drill down through various levels of legistation and how they’re all tied together, but this map jumping is making it unusable. I just upgraded for another year, but now I’m trialling Curio (after having last used it 15+ years ago) just so I can get this done.

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This is unrelated to the topic of the original thread, which was entirely different and was addressed promptly. This, too, will be addressed soon.