@eastgate Understood. I figured…just was trying to provide some thoughts. Something is up, nonetheless. I’ll shoot 'er off to tech support as you suggested. Thanks for your help, and enjoy the show!
There is definitely something odd about your file. I think—noting I’m just a fellow user, so can’t see inside the app—that you’re _unintentionally triggering some edge case.
A new TBX opens with the map {0,0} location on the left margin and a bit down from the top of the view:
Why not in the corner? I’ve no idea. Anyway, your file’s top left content starts way off {0,0}. To be clear, that no wrong, even if unexpected:
If I select all map content and move it closer to {0,0} and save, close, re-open the TBX, the content opens on screen. Based on that my hunch is that if the content is too far from the centre of the map the app is centring on the default start map position. Again, why, I don’t know but a possibility is the app is dealing with the (perceived) result of some different potential positioning problem but to the bad effect seen here.
The nature of such problem is the app doesn’t tell you the data isn’t where expected, so why would you move it (as you might if asked).
Separately, you’ve a number of misconceptions about ‘views’ but I’ll address those in a separate post, as they may be adding to your confusion.
@mwra Wow, “the” Mark Anderson. I’m honored!! 
Now that I know you’re right-click position-viewing trick, I see that reopening mine does open it with {0,0} near the upper right corner.
But for the life of me, I can’t move the selected content to near {0,0} as you were able to. I can get it closer in the X-axis, but the Y-axis always resets to around -20 or much more when I get closer to 0. All this does is make things worse with my file. When I close it and reopen it now, it’s still way off at this location (which I guess is similar to yours):
It is in support now, so I’ll refer them to your comments in this thread. Hopefully, I can get this resolved so I can forge ahead. It has simply been too difficult to work with so far.
Thank you!
@mwra Aside, I tried to explain in the thread how I “think” I caused it, and I still feel that’s it, in case it makes any sense based on your knowledge.
Not sure if that’s it, but it sure does seem like it keeps padding in more and more margin (padding around content) as you get close to the upper left edges.
Two things I’d look for:
-
Can you create a new project - similar Notes and Containers - and have it behave similarly?
(Also try copying all current content from this misbehaving project into a new project, for kicks) -
Have you been making any root-level changes during this time? Any relocating of, or creating Notes at the root level? Even in Outline View, or via Agents/Actions?
-
Are you using a custom Theme? Light or Dark Mode?
I’ve had, and resolved, this. But that’s all I can think of rn. Will download your file and play with it tomorrow (winding down here; 1:30 am, Dire Straits playing Your Latest Trick).
First, re:
I just realized @eastgate is you, Mark Bernstein, the maker of this fantastic creation! So apologies; if you say my thinking of the “canvas” is incorrect, I absolutely believe you! 
If it helps, I felt like it was adding more margin (padding) because as I moved content to the upper left (to try to fix this), it kept moving the content back over, showing new space again around it again. I guess the visual of it led me down that path.
So, since I guess I uncovered some sort of bug, some background on this file. I would think this is your typical new user use case. It was my first TBX file, and was used to dabble with all kinds of features based on reading through the manual, @mwra aTbRef docs, and walking through dozens of @satikusala videos to learn all about this before buying (which I eventually did, based on the clear power of this beast). So I tried a lot of things within this file. What you see in the file is what I’ve done. Some prototypes to see how inheritance and system and user variables work, and some agent code in a Rule to set the prototype, colors, and variables to test logic. That said, I have not fiddled with any system variables (other than the clear-cut ones straight from the videos and docs).
@archurhh in response to your questions:
Can you create a new project - similar Notes and Containers - and have it behave similarly
So far, no. Everything seems fine. I’m just trying to be super careful not to move things around to position my viewport of content.
try copying all current content from this misbehaving project into a new project
I had tried this multiple times, and just tried again. I select all, Copy, open a new Tbx document, Paste, and it hangs indefinitely (beach ball). I have to Force Kill the app.
Have you been making any root-level changes during this time? Any relocating of, or creating Notes at the root level? Even in Outline View, or via Agents/Actions?
Yes, I did lots of notes, prototypes, etc., all experimenting at various levels, including the root. I did not get very deep with Agents/Actions; only as far as programmatically setting prototype, color or user attributes.
Are you using a custom Theme? Light or Dark Mode?
No custom. My Mac is in Dark mode, though I do switch back and forth some.
I’ve had, and resolved, this.
I wish I could, but could never figure it out. Am now just rebuilding from scratch. Kinda super paranoid in fact about moving things around too much to position in the viewport, as I am trying to move forward with this actual project (now that I’ve finished my self-training with everyone’s help), and don’t want to break it again.
Dire Straits playing Your Latest Trick
One of my very favs! In fact, just got me to put on that whole awesome album.
That doesn’t chime with my experience of moving notes (as described in my previous post above). But, to be clear, I’m selecting note(s) and moving them across the map so as to alter their map position (i.e. $Xpos and $Ypos actually change).
Understood, and I don’t think anyone is suggesting it is. But, it is unusual and not reproducible for all which suggests you’ve hit some unseen condition with produces an undesirable input. IOW it isn’t a zero-sum game where either user or app must be wrong: it’s perfectly possible, though mis-aligned assumptions for both to be right but for neither to be happy.
It’s unclear here (and I don’t mean this unhelpfully) whether you are dragging the map or the item(s) on the map. Right-clicking on the map background (with no note selected) will indicate where on the map you r items are. If you just drag the map (e.g. click-drag on the background) the X/Y position of content wont change even if they have moved within the view.
I’ve tried @eastgate’s file and I don’t see the content on screen when I open in. But your file reports as made last-using v9.5.1, I’m on v9.5.2 and @eastgate report’s a later version (likely a development beta). I’m unclear if that is a factor.
Re ‘canvas’ vs. ‘map’. on one level they’re just words, but generally the former is most often used to describe a static drawing such as you might make in Photoshop or Illustrator (other drawing apps are available, etc.). By contrast, Tinderbox’s map view is dynamic updating to reflect a whole host of possible changes to underlying attribute values. To a casual glance those two might look the same yet they aren’t. However, the difference matters in terms of the assumptions we make about what we see on screen. Thus a map isn’t a drawing, and I think that’s the gist of @eastgatr’s point. Sorry for the long ex[lain, it’s one of those things that’s obvious once you get the underpinnings but for which there isn’t a simple explanation (IOW, it’s not a case of bad descriptions).
I believe big work’s afoot for something to be demo-ed in tomorrows meet-up and so this issue arrives at an awkward moment. I’ve a suspicion the cause won’t be complex once found but until the test doc works (or doesn’t!) the same fro everyone it can be difficult to get traction on a fix.
Anyway, HTH
OK: this is now understood.
We’re not switching tabs, we’re using ⌘⌥-O to switch to outline, and ⌘⌥-M to switch back to map. In the current implementation, changing the nature of the view doesn’t anticipate changing back: that’s why we have tabs.
Might change in the future.
OK, this is what I have. There is definitely some issue specific to your project file. In fact, it seems like a couple issues. Please try the attached file and advise if it behaves differently.
ScoreOnScore-ACRebuild-01.tbx (231.1 KB)
Re tab-switching, note that selection is saved per tab. This is discrete from what the overall view displays (i.e. which part of the map). IOW, if I select note A in the Map of a new document, select the outline tab and select note B, then re-select the map tab, the map’s selection is still ‘A’
@eastgate Gotcha. I understand that now. But just FYI, as a new user that’s used thousands of software apps/experiences over the years plus built many (not trying to brag), my initial instinct was to change views.
Might change in the future.
Sounds good! And maybe something to address “how” this got out of whack? And/or a “View/Trim View” command to clean up the view? One other suggestion: with nothing selected, currently, you can right-click and choose “Cleanup…”. It seems that should automatically do the “Trim” fix as well. (It does not).
@archurhh Yes, this worked!! I’ve rebuilt from scratch now, but how do you fix this!?!
@mwra OK, thanks!
As I believe I mentioned before, the extent of the map view always includes the origin. It also includes the bounding box of all elements in the view, and a margin of (I believe) ½ of the screen size.
Long time TBX user here. And I’ve long suffered from the problem @gregfay is describing. I just tried Mark Anderson’s trick of rightclick to get the {0,0} location on the map, then selecting and moving all of the items of the map so that the upper-right-most item of the map is near {0,0}. Then saving, closing, and reopening the problem TBX document seems to fix the map’s “migration” for that file. Thanks, Mark, and thanks gregfay for pursuing this issue.
To find the 0,0 spot, can you just make a note and assign xpos and ypos to 0 ?
Yes. Code:
$Xpos = 0;
$Ypos = 0;
If applied the top left corner of the note (if default rectangular shape) will be a {0,0} map co-ordinates. The map background right-click is more use if trying to work out where you currently are on the map.
I think the ‘size’ of the map is a red-herring. This issue seems to be that in some circumstances BX refuses to save/honour the current map position (i.e. what’s currently in the view pane).
I’m unclear as to why a map with all it’s notes grouped some distance from {0,0} (i.e. no scattered around) would usefully be re-opened (doc open/close or tab view-type changed) to include {0,0} but no notes. TBH, the X/Y location is rarely needs as the map is essentially infinite and you put thinks where they need to be -relative to one another. So apart from first use of a new doc’s map, starting at {0,0} doesn’t offer any benefit.
FWIW, I do wonder if this is an edge case affecting a root-level map. The XML of the specimen test doc offered did show a scroll position (scrollX and scrollY tab tag attributes in XML) but Tinderbox does seem to save changes to them when the doc is saved.
This issue is slightly different.
When you change a tab to a new view, Tinderbox sets up parameters for that view. That view gets to use things like “scroll position” as it chooses. Changing the view type is, in its way, a big deal.
We can’t just remember “this is my scroll position for the map, and that is my scroll position for the outline”, because you might have many map views, rooted at different containers. Sure, we could keep track of every possibility, but that’s messy and uses lots of memory and disk space.
If you want to switch back and forth between a map view and an outline view, set up two tabs.
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Interesting. I have been somewhat plagued by Map views disappearing over the horizon, and have been scrolling here and there to find things. I have been changing views using ⌘⌥-O and M, and it didn’t occur to me to have them as separate tabs. Will try using Tabs for the different views …
It would make sense, in my limited understanding, to have a command to simply centre the view on a ‘middle’ note for those occasions where the view has gone astray. Perhaps, knowing Tinderbox, there already is one and I dont know about it. ! Many thanks, Thomas
I’ve just added a new thread explaining a bit about what the ‘centre’ {0,0} of any map is an how it is arbitrary. See here.
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It would make sense, in my limited understanding, to have a command to simply centre the view on a ‘middle’ note for those occasions where the view has gone astray.
This sort of exists with the Toggle zoomed map view shortcut: [Cmd]+[Opt]+[Ctrl].
It should zoom out the map to display all the notes. And my understanding from experimentation is that if you hover over a note, it’ll be in the center of the map once you release the shortcut.
Thanks, thats a very clear explanation! I have used the [Cmd]+[Opt]+[Ctrl] and somehow felt the positioning was less straightforward - but yes, it brings the hovered over note to the centre. Lovely. !