That depends on your expectations. I’ve used a lot of timelines software—apps or web libraries—and the only decent ‘simple’ one I’ve encountered is no longer made†. As we don’t know your assumptions as to what should ‘just’ happen, it’s remarkably hard trying to guess the picture in your mind’s eye as to what ‘ought’ to happen with no user input.
In a Tinderbox Timeline view, by default shows all descendant notes/aliases (including containers/agents) for the current container, or the whole document if current scope is the root of the document. Any note or alias with, at minimum, a $StartDate value is plotted in the timeline; a $StartDate and $EndDate give the plotted item a duration in this the view. Any adornments in descendant maps are also drawn if they have a $StartDate. Any notes/aliases or adornments without any data are listed in the view sidebar, given that you may have intended to plot them There are many non-default customisations you can make, but as long as descendants of the container on which the view is based have—_at minimum—a $StartDate, you get a plot.
If the default result is not to taste you need to look at customisations, of which there are many. For instance, you can:
show only child objects, but not plot further descendants.
use start/end dates other than $StartDate/$EndDate. e.g. because you already use those for some other purpose.
set an earliest/latest date, so notes with dates outside the range aren’t drawn.
place items on different bands in timelines.
The temporal nature or real data is that it is messy, e.g. you get clumps with big gaps in between. In manual displays that can be ameliorated by removing some data and moving other items slightly. In a dynamic display, things need to be plotted where there data places them, as opposed to what looks nice to the human eye (not least because software can’t know the latter).
As with map based analysis, some user effort is required to get a good outcome. A practical suggestion is to take a small set of data (for a small temporal range and add it to a new TBX. How do the defaults look? What don’t you see that you were expecting (and what gave you those expectations)? Even better would be to share such a demo here as then it is possible to give practical suggestions as to how to implement a timeline best suited to your needs—within the capabilities of the view—and to explain why certain expectations can’t be met.
†. That was the original Beedocs (not the current ‘3D’ version). Then again, it looked simple and was simple. You had very little control: nice data looked nice, scruffy data didn’t!
Thank you for your input on this, @mwra. Greatly appreciate it. I used Beedocs long ago, and quite enjoyed it. I’m currently trying toggle between setting up notes in Map view to setting up the same notes in Timeline, and am trying to remember all of the attributes I need beyond $StartDate/$EndDate and $TimelineBand – and the step up steps required.
@Roma briefly mentioned Hover Expressions in an earlier post on this thread.
I’m working on a file in Map view, and am wondering if (and how) Hover Expressions can be used to reveal select attributes-values and/or some of the text in the body of a note.
I’m still working on Hover Expressions, thanks. The map has grown far beyond what I originally expected.
I realize that I initiated this discussion by first discussing Maps with linked notes, but we’re trying to use what we’ve got to build on a discreet Timeline view, too.
We’ve come to realize that include all notes might be a mistake, especially since not all of them have notable time values. I’m also trying to figure out how to manage the links.
Would it be best to set up a system of agents to collect and collate notes with time values, groups by type (prototype), which could also temporarily conceal links?
What are you working on? I’ve gotten those setup and working for @jprint714. What’s the problem?
Timelines are built off of a container. As you note further in your comment you can run agents and then apply the timeline view on the agent . Open the agent in a new tab and then view it in the timeline. Alias will to show the original links. Note, alias will not take on the links of their original notes, unless you use action code to recreate them. I could help you with this.
Also, note, if you want to “temporarily conceal” links you can do this by checking and unchecking the visible boolean in links/inspector.
They’re not working at the moment. We moved everything to a DropBox folder, to provide for an easier shared work experience. I think that’s when we lost the Hover Expressions, and so of our ability to upload images.
I think I follow. So, the point is that the agents will bring over any note aliases – with any / all attached links. I believe I follow you regarding the boolean checkbox, but that sounds like a potentially messy affair – and could very well disrupt the integrity of the note structures we’ve set up in Outline and Maps.
Perhaps it’s better to consider an alternate approach for a timeline view. I’ve seen references to other inter-app workflows with Tinderbox, such as interfacing with Aeon Timeline. Would that be an advisable approach for our purposes?
The Hover Expression uses code in the TBX file. But you are using Hover Expressions to show images, you might need to check the image paths stored in the TBX.
Maybe. Originals and aliases always share all (outbound) text links, i.e. $Text-to-note links. Originals and aliases will share (outbound) basic links, i.e. note-to-note links, unless the user adds basic links out from the alias; in that case the original and alias use their own differeing set of basic links.
The boolean being described has no effect on views other than the fact the links aren’t drawn in map or timeline views. The links are still present, just not drawn on screen.
Aeon Timeline is a nice tool but has grown in complexity, so there’s some learning curve and if you want to move data from Tinderbox, you’ll need to create CSV template exports and figure which Tinderbox attributes you wish to map to which (fewer) Aeon Timeline attributes. Also, and in case this is a show stopper, Aeon Timeline v3 removed the really nice HTML5 web timeline export that Aeon Timeline v2 had and it’s unclear if it will come back as the product seems to be evolving away from pure timelining. Still a neat tool though.
No. Alias don’t bring over the original note’s links. If you want these you need to use action code to re-model the links on the aliases. Running an agent will do nothing to the original not structure in either outline or map view. Interfacing with AEON timeline at this point would be WAY too much work for the effort. You’re still in the exploration mode, I’d recommend keeping it all in one place.
Perhaps we need to do a group Zoom call, you, me, @jprint714 and we can review the plan. I think you’re missing some keep elements of what we’ve put together.
Thank you. Yes, @satikusala set them up for us to do that, and I was working on them further so that they’d reveal certain attribute values. For some reason they stopped working, and we’re just trying to sort it out. It might’ve happened when we moved our file to a DropBox folder for shared access.
IOW, the links can carryover for alias notes, but it requires further setup. Is that correct?
Thank you. I’ll pause on Aeon for now as it seems to add a layer of complexity that could create problems. We’re trying to simplify certain aspects of this project / file so that all collaborators can contribute. But thank you for all of that. I look forward to exploring Aeon more in the future.
Oh, that’s very helpful. I’ll double check this soon. Thank you, @satikusala
Actually, that’s great. We love the links, but it’s hard to see the Timeline clearly with all of them in that particular view. So I’ll try my hand at setting up agents for the various prototyped notes, and then trying to open them in Timeline view.
I’m still trying to sort out the various Timeline bands-related attributes and settings so that we can see where things fall clearly within the Timeline view. Did you create a tutorial video on Timeline settings? I ask because I haven’t yet seen one.
Thank you for offering the Zoom call. I’ve moved overseas, and so it’s much harder for me to get onto those calls. I’ll connect with @jprint714 to see what we can do. Thank you for all of your help, though. It’s really coming together nicely, and we often talk about what a wonderful teacher (or coach) you’ve become!
Essentially they normally do. The exception is the user may choose to create links to/from or between aliases. A good example is drawing links on the map inside an agent where all the map notes are aliases. Agents only contain aliases: an agent’s map map have adornments, but only if added manually by the user—an agent map cannot contain a normal note.
We’ve been making progress since our last exchange, but we’re also facing a few problems. Thanks to @satikusala’s advice, we included the MediaPath attribute and that has help us apply images to notes. So that’s great!
But we’re still having problems with HoverImage and HoverExpression.
For HoverImage, we’ve changed the file path from it’s original location (local - desktop) to our shared DropBox folder. At first, Tinderbox seems to accept the new location, but then keeps reverting back to the old one. I’ve even tried clearing the file path in the Hover tab; it clears for a second and then reverts back to the the original file path. Any ideas on how to fix this or what we’re doing wrong?
For HoverExpression, I’ve tried to find and reproduce various code patterns for the Hover tab, e.g., something very basic like $ShortTitle + $Text to code that’s ab it more complex (but reflects what we’d like), including $ShortTitle + "\n" + "Start: " + $StartDate.format("") + "\n" + "End: " + $EndDateDate.format("") + "\n" + $Text So far, none of this is producing any hover expression though, so I suspect we’re overlooking something.
Finally, we’ve tried to set up a folder of agents that captures prototype-based notes, so that we can create a cleaner timeline, per @mwra & @satikusala suggested approached. We’ve just used a simple query code, e.g., $Prototype=="pNotes" but it hasn’t been successful. What are we doing wrong?
If something is re-setting, most likely you’ve changed an attribute’s local value in a note but that code running in the document is overwriting this. Or it may be the other way round, e.g. you’ve changed a value in a prototype but that code running on (some) notes is changing their value back. To triage further really means taking a look at the document or a test document that replaicates the problem.
Agaib, we’ve no test data to run this on, but the the empty format string .format("") might be problematic. also, I suspect you mean $EndDate rather than $EndDateDate
Hard do say as all you’ve really provided it the fact you did something and it didn’t work. So:
What did you expect (e.g. a [type of] view containing [what sort of notes] that are cllocted using [method])?
What strps did you take to make this?
What was the result?
What did you expect?
Those things can’t be guessed without more info. Ideally post a small TBX showing the problem. Include another test notes so that are some that should show up in the desired outcome and as implortaly some that should not. It’s helpful to include any user attributes used in your file (by all means use made up values) as then any code arising from a solution is more likely to work in your document via copy/paste. Indeed, if it doesn’t that likely indicates your test document was incomplete in showing the starting problem.
@jprint714 remember you have a number of rules and edicts running in this file. Take a look at the $Rule. You should see that the hoverimage path is set by the function “fGenerateFillHoverImg()”. You would need to update the function.
Thank you, @mwra & @satikusala ! Greatly appreciate your help. I first applied @mwra’s Hover Expression to a prototype, but so far the hoover only works for the prototype, but not for any of the prototype-applied notes. I’ve tried reseting the Displayed Attributes but that hasn’t had any impact.
or stamp the affected note(s) with this stamp code:
$HoverExpression=;
If you have many such notes scattered across your doc, make a quick agent with query:
$Prototype=="pNote"
…changing ‘pNote’ to the name of the prototype used in your doc and this action:
$HoverExpression=;
Le the agent run, check the affected notes are now inheriting the Hover Expression correctly and then delete the agent as its job is done and is now merely adding unwanted query/action load to the doc.
Note. If combining a Hover Image and Hover Expression, the hover panel sizes to the image and not the text. Using a small image crops some of the Hover Expression text (which is also drawn larger when used in unison with a hover image.
I’ll illustrate using @satikusala’s test doc from above. Firstly, with just a Hover Expression:
Now using a small test image (the demo didn’t include the referenced fill/image files):
Notice how much of the Hover Expression text is now lost as the hover panel sizes to the image. Also, when text and image are combined, the text is drawn larger and so fewer characters fit in the same space even if the hover pane is the same size as without an image.
Lastly (which I’ll report elsewhere), I discovered a glitch whereby if the hover image ($HoverImage) is set but can’t be found the Hover Expression is valid, no hover panel is shown. To test, delete the $HoverImage value and the text Hover Expression will show.
I fear I’m making an elementary error somewhere. I’ve used the code both of you provided in for the HooverExpression value for my prototype, and that code appears in bold for the prototype – and that’s where the HooverExpression works (as I said in my last post). But the HooverExpression code does not appear in bold for prototype-applied notes, even after I follow the steps you outlined for reseting $HoverExpression in the Displayed Attributes table.
I’m sorry if I’m overlooking something obvious, but would appreciate trying to figure out what it is! Thank you, again.
